Modifying transactions - adding split to transfer transaction
Hello,
I've recently moved from Quicken to MD - and so far it seems to
take a lot less time!
One thing that I've yet to work out how to do is to modify the other side of a transaction. A good example is a mortgage payment. I transfer $2000 out of my checking account for example and apply that to my mortgage account. Now when I get my mortgage statement and it tells me $1700 is interest and #300 is principal - how do I reflect that? In quicken I could just add a split to it.
However, I don't seem to be able to do the same thing here with MD. MD is currently hung after trying to download a couple hundred investment transactions but I believe it is Md 2010 I have.
Thanks,
Bryan.
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2 Posted by jenmor on 16 May, 2010 12:02 AM
I am having the same difficulty. In trying to split existing transactions, no matter how hard I try, I cannot bring up a split option. I've scoured the forums, tried Command-L (I'm on a Mac), but that brings up a Calculation screen. It seems that I can only modify splits on transactions that initially imported WITH a split. But I cannot seem to edit an existing single category transaction (imported) to add a split to the transaction. This is actually quite maddening. :-{ I am running MD2010 on Mac 10.5.8, and am trying desperately to make the switch from Quicken. Any help would be appreciated.
3 Posted by ljb on 16 May, 2010 12:35 AM
You can certainly modify a transaction to make it into a split, but only where the underlying account type supports splits. Specifically, split transactions are not available in investment accounts, and loan acounts don't allow direct edits on the register at all. (I haven't tried this with downloaded transactions but I don't think it makes a difference.)
4 Posted by jenmor on 16 May, 2010 12:49 AM
Thanks, ljb! First, I would like you to try saying the words "underlying account type supports splits" three times really fast, and let me know what it does to your brain. :)
Second, the phrase "underlying account type" is confusing me -- I was trying to make the edit in the checking account transaction that paid against a "liability," which I now wanted to correctly turn into a "loan" so that I could accurately reflect interest and principle payments.
If I understand you correctly, I believe you are saying that the "liability" account type does not support splits. Does that sound right? If so, then do you agree that I probably need to delete those transactions from my checking register entirely and re-enter them using the new and corrected "loan" account type?
Please advise - and thank you!!! I really want to love MD...
5 Posted by ljb on 16 May, 2010 01:30 AM
(Easier to type than say!)
Both checking account (which is a bank account type), and liability account, support splits. But I neglected to mention: you can only change a transaction into a split from the primary side, not the "other" side. The primary side is the account where you created the transaction.
For example, if you create a transaction in Checking to transfer funds to Savings, that transaction will show up in both accounts' registers. But Checking is the primary side, and there are a few things you can only do to the transaction from the primary side. One of those is converting to a split transaction. So in this case you could make the change from the Checking register, but not from the Savings register. (Another example is changing the Memo - this can only be done from the primary side.)
6 Posted by jenmor on 16 May, 2010 02:15 AM
I tried really, really hard to edit those transactions from the
primary side (checking register), and I still couldn't get a split
"opportunity." I've tried double-clicking on the transaction, I've
tried Command-L (which, by the way brings up the Calculations screen),
and I don't know what else to try except to delete those transactions
and re-enter them. Any other suggestions?
By the way, because you've been so responsive (ON A SATURDAY
NIGHT!!!), I've just purchased Moneydance. After working with three
other demos, I've found yours to be the most intuitive, user friendly
(except for this one itsy bitsy problem...). So, if you can get me
squared away with this one, I would be most grateful.
7 Posted by ljb on 16 May, 2010 02:48 AM
Uh oh, have to do the disclaimer thing again. I'm not associated with Moneydance. The MD staff people have a blue banner above their posts (as seen on the web). I'm just another user. The MD staff people are often here on weekends and evenings, but not always, and they give better answers, so don't give up until you hear from them.
To help them out, or anyone else who tries to answer, can you indicate what version of Moneydance you are using (e.g. MD2010r3 (749) from help>about). Also more about what you exactly you are doing. You have a transaction that transfers funds from checking to a liability account, and you want to change it to a split, so part of it goes from checking to liability and part goes somewhere else. Is that right?
8 Posted by jenmor on 16 May, 2010 03:00 AM
Thanks, ljb - I won't hold your non-affiliation against you. Thanks
for letting me know. Nonetheless, after entering data in to MD versus
iBank and SEE Finance, along with paralleling with Quicken, I found
the MD user interface much easier to adjust to in my transition from
Quicken. Anyway, for anyone else who may be able to help, here is the
information you recommended I post:
Moneydance 2010r2 (735)
The transactions were imported from Quicken. In Quicken, I had the
auto loan erroneously set up as a liability account, and thus, the
actual principal balance was off because I never split out the
interest and principal for each payment. Since I've gone over to MD,
I wanted to set the account up properly. So I set up a new "loan"
account, and want to now move the imported transactions from that
original liability account into the loan account. The way I see this
happening is to edit the categories on each original primary
transaction in my checking account to reflect the split for interest
paid and principal paid. But I can't seem to edit the checking
account transaction to do these splits to get the transaction to go
into the Loan account.
Hope I didn't make things more confusing. Did I answer your question?
9 Posted by ljb on 17 May, 2010 02:10 AM
Jen, (and monty, whose thread we seem to have hijacked, sorry), it would probably be a good idea to read up on loan accounts in the User Guide (temporary link here) if you haven't already. Loan accounts are intended to work best with automatic reminders to calculate the payments. You can enter the amounts manually instead, but then you might be better off using a liability account.
Having said that, I am able to create a transaction from a bank account to a loan account, then go back and change the transaction to a split with part going to the loan and part to an interest category. I just double-click to edit the transaction from the bank account side, click on the drop-down for category, click on the Split button at the top. The existing part's category is the loan account, and I add a new split for the interest and adjust the amounts.
There may be something I'm missing about downloaded transactions, but other than that I don't know why this doesn't seem to be working for you two.
10 Posted by jenmor on 17 May, 2010 02:24 AM
Thanks, LJB (& Monty, I do apologize... but it seems we have a similar
issue).
I will review the documentation you linked to.
I can do the same thing - creating a new transaction from bank to loan
and then going back into it again and editing it to reflect a split --
but this only works on transactions I've entered myself - it doesn't
seem to allow me to do it to imported transactions. Maybe that's
where the little glitch is.
Jen
Support Staff 11 Posted by Ben Spencer on 17 May, 2010 03:37 PM
Jen
Perhaps it is the case that you are trying to edit the loan transaction when you are in the loan account. Moneydance does not let you edit the transactions in the loan account. Instead try editing the transaction in the originating side such as your checking account.
Ben
12 Posted by jenmor on 17 May, 2010 03:41 PM
Thanks, Ben - but that's what I've been trying to do. It's still not
working.
Support Staff 13 Posted by Ben Spencer on 17 May, 2010 04:01 PM
Can you send me a screen shot of what happens when you double click on the transaction in the bank account and then click the up/down arrow on the category field. Press the print screen key on your keyboard to take a screenshot. Then attach it to this discussion.
Ben
14 Posted by jenmor on 17 May, 2010 07:03 PM
Here is what it looks like when I double click that transaction:
and here is what I get when I hit the drop down screen under Category:
You can see that I don't get the little "Split" key at the top of the
scroll down. Which makes me crazy, because I know it's in there
somewhere. Please note that this ONLY happens (I think) on these
imported transactions that I want to "fix" to enter them correctly
within MD.
Hope this helps...
Jen
Support Staff 15 Posted by Ben Spencer on 17 May, 2010 07:23 PM
I don't see the attachment could you attach it again.
Ben
Support Staff 16 Posted by Ben Spencer on 17 May, 2010 08:42 PM
The screen shot doesn't show the pop up window that you get when you click the up/down arrows on the category selector. Could you click that and take the screenshot again.
Also I see that the account you are categorizing as is a Liability and not a Loan could you take a screen shot with the category selector open on that transaction in the AHCP liability account.
Ben
17 Posted by ljb on 17 May, 2010 09:12 PM
(Um... I don't really think you wanted to post those screen shots to a public forum, did you? You might want to delete them and start over with a private thread...)
18 Posted by monty on 17 May, 2010 11:42 PM
Thanks - don't feel bad about Hijacking :) The key thing for me is the 'primary' side of the transaction. My normal operation was do download checking, then switch to the mortgage account and take the mortgage statement and apply the interest.
So, now I'll try adding the mortgage interest on the checking side, or just add a separate transaction on the mortgage account for the interest.
19 Posted by ljb on 18 May, 2010 12:35 AM
Jen, I wonder if you are really trying to edit from the "Other Side" of your transactions? This would explain the lack of a Split button. Can you edit the Memo field? That' s the line below description. If you cannot change or add a memo, that would also indicate you are looking at the "other side". Try right-click and pick Show Other Side from the menu. The other side's register will open with that transaction selected. Do you get a Split button for the category drop-down for the same transaction from that side?
I'm thinking maybe you imported the transaction into the liability/loan acount, rather than the checking account, so the liability/loan account is the primary side, and you will not be able to split it from the checking (or whatever) 'other' side. And splitting it from the liability account side won't help, because you want the checking funds to split partly into the loan and partly into interest.
20 Posted by jenmor on 18 May, 2010 06:58 PM
Hey, ljb: You are so kind to keep thinking about my problem!
Actually, I CAN edit from the "other side," but that just seems
wrong. I should be able to ONLY edit it from the originating side
(checking account). I get your hypothesis about importing the
transaction into the liability account, etc., but I know I didn't do
anything special with the import from Quicken -- just followed regular
instructions. So, I'm starting to lean towards just deleting all those
transactions and reentering them....
Thanks again,
Jen
21 Posted by ljb on 18 May, 2010 08:51 PM
OK, I'm assuming you mean you can change that transaction to a split from the 'other side'. It would help to know that because otherwise it is still a mystery.
Ben, is this something that should be addressed? There are some things you can only do from the primary side of a transaction, but MD does not usually give any visual clues as to which side you are looking at. Ideally, no such clue would be needed because you could do anything from either side, but that isn't the case now.
Jen, with double-entry accounting, every transaction is supposed to be symmetrical. So 'originating side' doesn't really mean anything. We should be able to do any edit from either side, and the only difference should be the sign of the amount. (But it doesn't quite work. MD only allows some things from the side where the transaction was created.) Yes, you are going to have to re-create those transactions, with splits if you want.
22 Posted by jenmor on 18 May, 2010 10:09 PM
Thanks, ljb. That does seem to be where I'm leaning. It appears,
though, that MD is allowing me to split the transaction from the wrong
side. Maybe I'll experiment with that and see if I can get away
without having to delete and reenter. It's only this one darn
account, so it shouldn't be too big a deal.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for all your thoughtfulness on this!
Jen
Support Staff 23 Posted by Tom Freeman on 02 Jun, 2010 08:04 PM
Jen,
Cleaning up pending issues and wanted to check in and see if you felt your issue was resolved.
Also you download the latest build here: http://moneydance.com/other.
It has fixed a few bugs.
Tom
24 Posted by jenmor on 02 Jun, 2010 10:33 PM
Hi Tom:
Thanks for checking in. No, this problem has not been resolved. I
don't think it's resolvable. It appears I will need to completely
delete those imported transactions and enter them in manually. (So -
perhaps that's my resolution... ;) )
I think you can go ahead and close it.
Also, just a note - I have been running this concurrently with YNAB
and Quicken, and realized that the Split transaction window is a bit
cumbersome. In both YNAB and Quicken, when you do a split, you don't
have to deal with a separate pop-up window as in MD. Is there any
chance MD is going to incorporate that pop-up into the actual
registers in the future?
Jen
Support Staff 25 Posted by Tom Freeman on 08 Jun, 2010 05:40 PM
Jen,
There is nothing currently in development to change he split window. I will pass on your issues with the split pop-up to the developers.
Tom
26 Posted by jenmor on 08 Jun, 2010 06:07 PM
Thank you!
Take care,
Jen
Ben Spencer closed this discussion on 08 Jun, 2010 06:10 PM.