Merging old securities transactions into new account

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cscj01

12 Oct, 2018 05:01 AM

I had to create new accounts for my old accounts at one of my financial institutions. After the new accounts were created (with new accounts numbers), they journaled my old accounts transactions into the new accounts. Each account contains many securities and go back to 2005. I have sold some securities over the years and bought them back in some cases. My questions involves how I handle this in Moneydance. Here is what I think I need to do:

  1. create the new accounts with a different name than my old one (i.e., Acct1 -> Acct2);
  2. add my securities to the new account;
  3. use batch move to move the transactions to my new account;
  4. delete my old accounts;
  5. set up online access to the new accounts;
  6. download any transactions against the new accounts.

    I might also add that I could rename the new accounts back to the name I used for the old account once I have deleted the old account.

    Does anyone see any issues/have concerns about this approach?

  1. 1 Posted by mhoggie on 12 Oct, 2018 09:38 AM

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    just a user,

    Did they change all your security names? I had that issue with Fidelity 401k. I chose to just add some sell and buy transactions to move the funds to the new security names.

  2. 2 Posted by cscj01 on 12 Oct, 2018 04:51 PM

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    No, they did not change the security names. They just moved them all to the new accounts with their journaling process. So, for example, AT&T in the old account is still AT&T in the new account with the symbol T.

  3. 3 Posted by mhoggie on 12 Oct, 2018 06:10 PM

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    Before you mess up your old investment history, I think I would make a backup copy of my current data set and then open a new data set to experiment with the changes you want to make before changing them on the good data set. I've messed myself up several times trying to insert old historical information. It can be a pain to clean up.

  4. 4 Posted by -Kevin N. on 12 Oct, 2018 06:33 PM

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    Hi cscj01,

    If the 'old' accounts no longer exist, and you're looking to keep the account name the same, couldn't you just change the account number of the 'old' account to the account number of the 'new' account?

    Then set up online banking using the new account number.

    You could make a notation in the account's comments section as to the date of the account number change.

    -Kevin N. (not a member of MD support)

  5. 5 Posted by cscj01 on 12 Oct, 2018 06:50 PM

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    Hi Kevin,

    Her's what I think may preclude what you are suggesting. The reason they "had" to create the new accounts was because I terminated my relationship with an agent who was handling my accounts (the reasons they were handling are too many to discuss). In any case, I could not trade in the old accounts once the agent removed themselves as my agent. My financial institution told me that they had to create new accounts. They did and journaled the transactions. I needed to begin some selling of securities I did not want in my portfolio. I knew these transactions would be in the new accounts. Because the old accounts would have a zero balance, I presumed if I just changed the account numbers and set up online banking, I would possibly lose the histories in the old accounts.

    Now that I've explained, I'm beginning to think your solution might work. Let me know what you think about the fact that I have created transactions on the new accounts and how that might (or not) affect your solution. Thanks for your suggestion in any case.

  6. 6 Posted by -Kevin N. on 12 Oct, 2018 07:36 PM

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    Hi cscj01,

    I think that you should try it out on a copy of your data file (as forum member mhoggie recommended) That's probably the best way to uncover any anomalies that may occur without risking any damage to your current data.

    Doing so may involve some cleanup. At the worst maybe even some fudging to get things to reconcile.

    It's just so much easier to change the account number(s) than to jump through all the hoops that you describe in your OP. It's what I would try first.

    Setting up online banking for the new account number(s) may or may not involve 'Forget Online Passwords'. It has been ages since I last used 'Forget Online Passwords' but if I remember correctly, it caused Moneydance to forget ALL online passwords for all accounts. I don't know, TIK may have changed the behavior of that process but be prepared for that in case 'Forget... ' is necessary.

    Let us know how you make out. OK?

    -Kevin N. (not a member of MD support)

  7. 7 Posted by dwg on 12 Oct, 2018 08:51 PM

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    I'm a fellow user.

    I concur that if you can continue you use your existing accounts in some way that is likely to provide the best solution. Changing the static information in Moneydance is pretty easy and if you can disable the existing online setup for the existing account then set it up using the new account with the existing Moneydance account so much the better.

    Depending on how they did it you may initially end up with some duplicates (they may redo the transaction IDs) but this should be a once off effort to deal with these.

    Again I would also strongly suggest you try this out on a copy of the data.

  8. 8 Posted by cscj01 on 12 Oct, 2018 11:05 PM

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    Okay folks,

    I disabled online banking, changed the account numbers, re-initialized online banking, and downloaded transactions into the 4 accounts. For some odd reason, there was a buyxfr and sellxfr for the buys and sells that had been already executed. I am presuming that the journaling they did caused that.

    I then checked that each one of the buyxfr and sellxfr transactions matched the transactions that were there and deleted all the butxfr and sellxfr transactions, and everything seems to be copacetic. I do have a couple of journaled transactions that I haven't resolved as yet, but they seem to have something to do with the cash balances. I'll check that later.

    BTW, the buyxfr and sellxfr transactions were from the old accounts. It seems to me that they need to work on their journaling routine, because I had all the Buys and Sells as well.

    Oh well, I just hope they don't download the buyxfr and sellxfr transactions again when I download.

    I'll update this after a couple of days and let everyone know how things go.

    Thanks again.

  9. 9 Posted by -Kevin N. on 13 Oct, 2018 02:48 PM

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    Hi cscj01,

    The BuyXfr and SellXfr transactions may very well re-download because their unique transaction identifiers (TID) are not in the make up of your current transactions.

    If they DO re-download, you can edit the 'Action' field and others as needed. Then delete the existing duplicate.

    Doing so will retain the TIDs and should prevent future duplication.

    -Kevin N. (not a member of MD support)

  10. 10 Posted by mhoggie on 13 Oct, 2018 03:49 PM

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    just a user,

    I second what Kevin suggests. You want to edit the new duplicate downloaded transactions and delete the old existing ones to avoid downloading the duplicates again and again. (The downloaded transactions will have the little blue circle in the description field)

  11. 11 Posted by cscj01 on 13 Oct, 2018 04:21 PM

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    Okay, if I understand what you are saying I should do the following at my next download (assuming the buyxfr and sellxfr are there:

    1. change the buyxfr to Buy for all buy transactions;
    2. change the sellxfr to Sell for all sell transactions;
    3. delete the original Buy transactions;
    4. delete the original Sell transactions.

    In order to know which transactions are the original, could I delete the originals first and change the buyxfr's and sellxfr's afterwards? Or is there an issue with that order of doing things?

  12. 12 Posted by -Kevin N. on 13 Oct, 2018 04:37 PM

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    Hi cscj01,

    I'm not sure that deleting all of the old transactions first would be in your best interests. If only for the purpose of being able to compare the 'old' with the 'new' prior to deletion.

    -Kevin N. (not a member of MD support)

  13. 13 Posted by cscj01 on 13 Oct, 2018 05:03 PM

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    I suppose what I was asking is, do the original transactions and the buyxfr's and sellxfr's have different transactions ID's? If so, which transaction ID's are we wanting to keep and which are we wanting to delete? If I change the buyxfr's and sellxfr's to Buy's and Sell's, how will I tell them apart except for their location in the register? If that is the only way to differentiate the original and the journaled, once I change the journaled to Buy and Sell, I have a significate number of transactions to select from, all with the same date and all with Buy or Sell (depending on the transaction)

  14. 14 Posted by mhoggie on 13 Oct, 2018 06:05 PM

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    just a user,

    Yeah, just being safe, you don't delete the old ones first. I would take the new duplicate downloaded transactions, edit as needed, and add a note in the memo to mark the new downloaded transactions. Then double check before deleting the old transaction to make sure you didn't miss anything. Also if you right click on any description field, you will can show transaction details that reveal the downloaded date, etc. (of course, you did back up the entire MD data set first just to satisfy Murphy's law ?)

  15. 15 Posted by cscj01 on 13 Oct, 2018 09:38 PM

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    Adding a note solves the problem of identifying them after I change the buyxfr with Buy and sellxfr with Sell. Thanks for the tip. I think I couldn't see the forest for the trees with that one. And yes, I did make a backup, so if anything goes awry, I can restore I also resolved the few journaled transactions I had not resolved before. Things seem to be fine.. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I'll let you know the final outcome when I download tomorrow and cleanup any duplicates.

  16. 16 Posted by cscj01 on 14 Oct, 2018 05:26 PM

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    Thought I'd take a shot at cleaning out the duplicates that are downloaded today. Found there is an issue I should have noted before. All the journaled transactions show zero dollars, shares, and price. If I go the route of keeping those and deleting the originals, I really have a lot of work to do.

    Looking at this, I remembered that there is a point in time when MD will no longer download transactions that are older than a set number of days. I'm beginning to think that if I let them go past that time span (I believe it is customizable), they will no longer download. Since I've checked the balances against what my accounts show online, and MD agrees with those, maybe that is the way to go.

    Any thoughts?

  17. 17 Posted by dwg on 14 Oct, 2018 08:09 PM

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    Moneydance downloads all available transactions it is your Financial Institution that sets how long transactions are available via the OFX server for.

  18. 18 Posted by mhoggie on 14 Oct, 2018 09:05 PM

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    I've wrestled with that before. Sometimes I wished there was a feature to ignore a transaction, but keep it in place so new institution downloads would not populate another transaction. I have noticed that you can change many fields on a downloaded transaction, so maybe you could zero the security count to keep it neutral.

  19. 19 Posted by dwg on 14 Oct, 2018 09:23 PM

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    The OFX specification is designed to have a transaction ID that is stored so that software can reject duplicates. That is part of the reason for having the merge function in moneydance so that downloaded information like the ID can be stored as part of any existing transaction and thus prevent future duplicate downloads.

  20. 20 Posted by mhoggie on 14 Oct, 2018 09:38 PM

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    Ohhh, didn't know the merge worked in the investment register because I rarely entered anything manually. So maybe cscj01 should get some merge messages if the date is within a week and the amount is exact. Hope that works for him.

  21. 21 Posted by dwg on 14 Oct, 2018 10:00 PM

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    I think it should be possible but it is not exactly something I can test, the best we get here is QIF downloads and many investment companies only provide useless CSV downloads.

  22. 22 Posted by mhoggie on 14 Oct, 2018 10:17 PM

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    Same here, next time I get new transactions, I'll duplicate a couple of them manually and see if the merge feature picks them up.

  23. 23 Posted by cscj01 on 15 Oct, 2018 03:50 AM

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    I have never had a merge option appear in a securities register even though I have entered a transaction before it was downloaded. I don't think that functionality is available in MD. However, maybe I just haven't set something correctly.

    I can say that I have had duplicate transactions (download yesterday and today) that I would delete the duplicate. After a couple of days, I stopped getting the transactions. This has happened in my securities registers.

  24. 24 Posted by mhoggie on 20 Oct, 2018 02:17 AM

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    Just had some new transactions direct downloaded from Fidelity. Before confirming them I manually added duplicate transactions. No merges were offered, so I think that confirms the merge feature is not available on the investment downloads.

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