Multiple names for a security (Security Price Loader enhancement request)

jonthaler's Avatar

jonthaler

10 Jul, 2018 02:50 AM

I am not support staff, just a user.

In a previous (closed) thread, @dwg said:

"In Moneydance you define a security once, this object will contain all the static information related to the security e.g, Name. ticker etc. I will also contain the price history data. This sort of data you do not really want to hold multiple times, it is not efficient to start with and to change anything you have to change it in multiple places. So in Moneydance you do not define a security more than once. What you do is to associate or link a security to any account you want to use this security in."

This model does not fit my usage. I have the same security twice in one account. One is an IRA, and the other is not, so they cannot be combined. To distinguish them, I gave them different names:
* Fidelity 500 Index Advantage
* Fidelity 500 Index Advantage (IRA)
They both have the same ticker: FUSVX.
They share the same price history, but not purchases and sales. So, if I want to avoid entering one of the prices by hand, it would be good if Mike Bray's Security Price Loader extension would load prices for all occurrences of a given ticker symbol.

NOTE: Now that the Quotes and Exchange Rates extension uses Alphavantage, it is nearly useless – that is not an option for me. I use hleOfxQuotes to obtain prices, and Security Price Loader to import them into MD. Mildly inconvenient, but not horrible.

Thanks for any other suggestions.

Jon

  1. 1 Posted by sth on 10 Jul, 2018 03:39 AM

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    Well, that is sort of an issue with how you have set it up. Technically the IRA account and the brokerage are different accounts with different account numbers at the same brokerage. It would probably be easier to set it up that way than to try to keep track of separate securities that are actually the same security.

    The Q&ER extension now works, though slowly to keep from triggering the AV servers. There is still a lack of coverage for some foreign exchanges but Fidelity funds should work fine. I sometimes use both since the Q&ER gives volume data (as well as high/low) but the mutual funds come in late so I fill in with hleOfxQuotes for those since for mutual funds high/low/volume is meaningless. Yahoo has(had) better coverage than the AV server. But it is free and not working to try to defeat hleOfxQuotes. YMMV.

  2. 2 Posted by dwg on 10 Jul, 2018 03:58 AM

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    I'm a fellow user.

    There is another account structure that you could potential use. In the forums you most often see the advice to create an account for your investment house/broker and group all the Investments through that organisation in that Investment account. While that can be a convenient and easy approach to take it is not the only one.

    Through one Investment house I have three mutual fund type investments, we have legislated limits on the amount you can have in certain fund types and different taxation treatment of each hence the split. I have created three separate Investment accounts one for each of these master funds (the monies are invested into funds grouped in the master fund)

    So what I have done is created investment accounts that reflect each individual master fund rather than the Investment house.

  3. 3 Posted by jonthaler on 11 Jul, 2018 02:17 AM

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    sth says, "Well, that is sort of an issue with how you have set it up."

    That's true, and I'll have to live with it. I don't really want to have three Fidelity accounts in MD (Roth, IRA, and regular). I'm already keeping track of three family members' investments (an MD account for each), and don't want to deal with a multiplicity of accounts. From my point of view, Fidelity is one account, regardless of their internal numbering scheme. I get one statement from them.

    There is no a priori reason why two instances of a security need to be distinguished by account. The ticker symbol could specify a unique price history, and other adornments (either account or security name (eg, "IRA") could specify separate buy/sell histories. MD supports the first adornment, but not the second. Oh well ...

  4. 4 Posted by sth on 12 Jul, 2018 12:56 AM

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    That is why you can create accounts and sub account to have an account for each family member and then putting which ever accounts at whatever brokerages under that. Up to you.

    However, asking MD to make a structural change to keep multiple securities updated yet the same is not only a big task but makes the whole software a lot more complicated and less robust for everyone. There isn't a priori reason but there is a good reason in software and UI design as well as logic that this shouldn't be the way to go. It adds a whole duplicate structure based on securities that mirrors the existing one on accounts.

    There is no logical reason that this should be structured by an arbitrary changing of the security name. So, in terms of added complexity leading to less robust version for everyone, I would vote against this change. But then again, it is just my $0.02 USD worth.

  5. 5 Posted by Mike Bray on 12 Jul, 2018 11:54 AM

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    I have to agree with @sth. The structure of MD follows the principles of the security industry, i.e a unique Ticker code for a unique traded stock/fund/currency. My extension also follows this approach. You can only have one entry per Ticker.

    I suppose the stance I took when writing the Security Price Loader is that a Ticker only has one price history. Looking at the replies to this I would suggest that your IRA investments are completely separate from your normal investments and require separate Investment Accounts.

    I have four investment accounts each with the same Fund. I only have to set the price for that Fund once. The investment accounts allow me to separate the various transactions against those different investments whilst keeping the price up to date.

    If you really want to do what you ask I suggest that you give each copy of the investment different ticker ids, eg.FUSVX, FUSVX2 etc. When you have created the csv file from hleofxquotes, edit the csv file and duplicate the relevant rows changing the Ticker as appropriate. Not ideal but it should allow you to do what you want.

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