Loan account does not apply principal/interest split it calculates
I have two mortgages, each set up as loan accounts in MD. This
behavior is the same in both accounts. When I view the account, the
sidebar at the right-hand side of the window shows the correct
principal/interest split for the next payment. However, every month
when the automatic transaction for the monthly payment is recorded,
the principal/interest split that it records is the same as on the
first payment about 1.5 years ago when I started using MD. It's
ignoring the gradual increase in principal and decrease in interest
that happens naturally as the loan is paid down, even though it is
calculating it for the "next payment" it shows in the account view.
Why does MD not record the principal/interest split that it
computes for each payment?
I'm running MD 2008r4 (641), Mac OS X v10.5.8 (last Leopard release), Java version 1.5.0_20.
Have I set up the loan accounts wrong somehow, or is this just a bug?
Thanks,
David
2 Posted by mrdooba on 10 Oct, 2009 09:52 PM
It's likely not you. I have had the same problem for a couple years. Sometimes Moneydance automatically enters it correctly, more often it stalls using an earlier payment. I check and correct it every every month.
3 Posted by ds4854 on 10 Oct, 2009 11:48 PM
With my loan accounts, it happens every month like clockwork. MD has NEVER gotten the principal/interest split right for the recorded transaction, even though it gets it right for the "next payment" prediction.
David
4 Posted by John Selden on 12 Oct, 2009 11:19 PM
The principal/interest transactions on my mortgage are exhibiting the same problem and have been for some time. I could have sworn that it used to work properly, but now I'm not sure.
Support Staff 5 Posted by Ben Spencer on 13 Oct, 2009 08:52 PM
Hi All
i have not been able to reproduce the problem you are describing. Would one of you be willing to attach a file that demonstrates this problem. Perhaps make a copy of your data file and delete all the other accounts except those that are involved.
Many thanks for your assistance.
Sincerely
Ben Spencer
6 Posted by mrdooba on 16 Oct, 2009 09:54 PM
Ben,
I can send you a file stripped of everything but the home loan and base checking account. However, It may be of limited value to you since all the past errors have already been been manually corrected, the problem tends to be erratic, and I just deleted and recreated the relevant automatic reminder while attempting to update by escrow payment and troubleshoot the problem. Can you spoof the date to see if future payments will reproduce the problem?
Kevin
Kevin
Support Staff 7 Posted by Ben Spencer on 16 Oct, 2009 10:02 PM
Hi Kevin
Sure I can just advance the date on my test system and that will triger the next reminder.
I appreciate you for taking the time to assist me with this.
Sincerely
Ben Spencer
8 Posted by mrdooba on 06 Nov, 2009 01:27 PM
I sent Ben a file that did not exhibit the problem, and an earlier version of the file that did exhibit the problem. Not sure, but I think I may have fixed it (for now) by deleting the automatic reminder payment, then going into the Loan account, clicking Account | Edit Account, and letting the program recreate a new reminder payment. Could be you can't edit loan reminder payments, you can only delete and then recreate them.
Kevin
9 Posted by kevin.garber on 10 Nov, 2009 01:02 AM
I think you just helped me realize why my truck loan is not working out either. I'm at the point where I'm going to pay it off this month and the MD balance doesn't equal the real balance (MD value is higher). I have been using a 'New Transaction Reminder' for this loan instead of going in to the loan to set up the "Payment Reminder'. It certainly makes sense because the Payment Reminder shows interest on the loan, unlike the Transaction Reminder. Not sure why I never noticed this before.
Thank you..
10 Posted by mrdooba on 06 Dec, 2009 06:42 PM
Just checked this months automatic payment - return of the same problem. No clue how to fix it, so for now I'm back to manual corrections.
Support Staff 11 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 06 Dec, 2009 09:51 PM
We are currently deep in final work on Moneydance 2010, so I am not sure I can get our developer to look into this issue this week, but I will refer this case to him and we will try to figure out why this is happening. If it has not already happened, we would really appreciate it if someone could create a detailed description of this issue as a trac ticket on our our feature request and bug reporting system.
Thanks to you all for your patience. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance, and thank you for your interest in Moneydance.
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
12 Posted by ds4854 on 06 Dec, 2009 10:07 PM
Angie,
You can find this same bug documented in your trac system. It's number 1354, posted 2 years ago (by someone other than me):
http://moneydance.com/trac/ticket/1354
I feel compelled to ask a couple of questions here:
First, why do you have a forum board for "Problems" when the answer to anything is always, "Please post it on our trac system if you want us do anything about it."? Why not just direct everyone to the trac system in the first place?
Second, I found this in 30 sec with a very simple search. I know you folks are very busy right now, but did you even try to find it?
Sorry if this sounds snarky. Just slightly annoyed that it's so hard to get something fixed around here.
David
Support Staff 13 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 06 Dec, 2009 10:30 PM
David,
I apologize, I should have requested that users comment on the existing ticket. It is especially useful for us to have information about when the program posts the split correctly and when it is done incorrectly. For example, some users have reported the split is correct when the reminder auto-commits, but it is not clear to me if this is true for everyone.
The short answer to why we don't point people to our trac system is that we need to update our help page. I'm currently writing a short guide to point our users in the right direction (trac system, forum posts, or private requests) for the common categories most issues fall into. We recently expanded our help staff, so I hope that this update, as well as more frequent blog posts, will be coming soon.
And you are right, this is an issue and it needs to be dealt with. I am adding it to our list of issues to discuss during our next staff meeting. I know it's not as good as a solution, but it is what I feel sure I can deliver on.
Thank you again for bearing with us.
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
14 Posted by ds4854 on 07 Dec, 2009 04:09 PM
Angie,
As to the question of "when the program posts the split correctly and when it is done incorrectly", I can't answer for other users, but in my case it is exactly what I think the posted bug report from 2 years ago (Trac # 1354) described: The split was correct the FIRST MONTH that the transaction auto-committed after I set up the loan account. It has been INcorrect EVERY month thereafter, because it keeps posting the first-month's principal/interest split, when the principal should be increasing and the interest should be decreasing.
Please note that MD is computing the correct principal/interest split when it predicts what the next payment will be, in the sidebar on the loan account's register page. The error comes in when it actually auto-commits the payment from my checking account to the loan account. At that point, it reverts to using the P/I split from the first installment.
David
15 Posted by Peter Geschke on 24 Dec, 2009 01:02 AM
+1...I can't get the loan payment splits right either...entering it manually is a pain. I agree that the amounts are correct at first, and the lower right corner is correct for the "next payment", but the amounts that end up being deducted are only from the FIRST month. Annoying!!
Dare I go back to the Quicken monster? At least it calculated things right.
16 Posted by Bronco Country on 09 Feb, 2010 12:27 AM
I'm new to MD and am glad to be rid of Quicken!
I have set up my mortgage and can get the correct loan payment to show up in my checking account register along with the appropriate splits and tranfers to the loan balance. But I have only used the "reminder" by clicking on the date on the calendar, and then selecting "record next occurrence."
Am I understanding that if I set this up with "auto-commit," the splits will be wrong?
Thanks for any help you can offer.
17 Posted by Bronco Country on 24 Feb, 2010 03:19 AM
I'm very happy with MD overall. Any chance someone can answer my question above (even if it isn't what I want to hear?)
Thanks!
18 Posted by mrdooba on 25 Feb, 2010 01:04 PM
I think the issue is that, at least in MD2008, the upcoming mortgage payments are calculated correctly, but sometimes the values actually entered into the registers are just copies of an old payment. I have not yet tried MD2010, I'm waiting for the dust to settle. Try the auto-commit and see what happens. You can always correct any errors and go back to what you are doing now.
Support Staff 19 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 01 Mar, 2010 02:57 PM
Bronco Country,
This is a sticky issue to reproduce, and we are continuing to work on the problem. It would be great if one of you would be willing to send me a data file (stripped down as described in post 5 above), it would assist us in diagnosing this issue. It would be especially helpful to have a Moneydance 2010 file which exhibits this behavior. This can be sent to me at Angie (at) moneydance (dot) com.
I think the current best work-around is to either not use the auto-commit function for the time being for mortgage payments, or following the tips listed in post 8 above.
I apologize for the continuing delays in resolving this issue, we are continuing to work on it.
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
20 Posted by mrdooba on 03 Mar, 2010 01:08 PM
I loaded an old MD2008 demo file from September into MD2008 and MD2010 and still see the issue in both. I sent the file to Angie this morning.
Support Staff 21 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 03 Mar, 2010 03:26 PM
I have received this file and will look into the issue with our developer. I will post here when I have more information.
Please let me know if I can be of further assistance,
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
22 Posted by RainMeister on 14 Mar, 2010 08:05 AM
Has this problem been resolved yet? I've been testing MD to see if it is the right alternative to MS Money, and the inability to allocate principal and interest would be a deal killer.
23 Posted by John Clarke on 28 Mar, 2010 02:50 PM
Really would appreciate a fix for this- as I have the same problem in MD 2010 for the Mac. My mortgage payments - principle amounts- have been frozen since 9/2/09- so next week I'll have 7 months of incorrectly recorded interest and principle amounts- thus tax reporting (interest) is incorrect and loan balances are getting further from actual. I've attached a screen shot.
the payment amounts are calculated correctly when I open the loan- its just the reminder enters static amount. This one is quite a problem for me- thanks for looking into it.
Support Staff 24 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 29 Mar, 2010 02:16 PM
Hi all,
We are working with out developer on this issue, but I don't have a firm timeline for resolution. I apologize for the delay
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
25 Posted by eddieb on 30 Mar, 2010 06:50 PM
I just discovered last night that I have this same problem with my two mortgage accounts and discovered this thread. I'm attaching here two loan account registers I have where this problem is occurring that I think may may shed some light on the issue.
I started using MD in January of this year. Therefore, both of these two loan accounts were already active in January. Since one just started up in July, 2007, I decided to enter it from the beginning, generate all the monthly payment transactions from the loan account up to January of this year via manually accepted reminders, and then let it go from there. The other loan was several years old, so I just put in the balance, started manually generating payments transactions in 12/09 via a manual reminder, and then let it go auto from there.
What's interesting is the the loan where I manually generated the payments from July to January one after the other by accepting the reminder transactions one by one worked fine. It wasn't until March, which is a duplicate of the February transaction, until it started screwing up. April has already been generated and it's also the same as February and March.
The other loan that I started in 12/09 also started screwing up in March. Like the other loan, the April and March payment transactions are identical to the February payment transaction. February for both loans was correct, but then the payments have been the same since.
After February was when I believe I set the payment reminders on both loans to auto commit. Before that, all the payment reminder transactions were manually accepted.
Somebody mentioned it in another post in this thread, but could this problem have something to do with auto committing? If this is the case, at least a workaround would be to turn off auto commit instead of having to correct the payments manually every month. Thanks.
Support Staff 26 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 28 Apr, 2010 04:06 AM
Just checking in to let you all know we're still working on the issue, but it's not going down without a fight. I'll update you when I have more solid information. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance,
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
27 Posted by Bronco Country on 18 Jul, 2010 09:41 PM
Any updates on this topic? Still loving MD2010. Would love resolution on this.
Support Staff 28 Posted by Ben Spencer on 20 Jul, 2010 07:11 PM
I am afraid that we do not have a solution for this problem at this time.
Ben Spencer
Moneydance Support
29 Posted by Paul on 05 Aug, 2010 04:08 AM
I am running into the same frustration with Money Dance. It doesn't seem to automatically adjust the principle/interest amounts in my mortgage payments. I've tried this two different ways with no luck.
1) I tried to set up a transaction reminder by memorizing a mortgage payment with a split. The problem is that every subsequent split has exactly the same principle amount. MD doesn't seem to adjust the principle amount. The splits in the transaction are as follows. The first line lists the mortgage account in the Category column. It says Mortgage - House, which links it to that loan. The second line lists Loan:Mortgage:Interest as the Category. Is that the correct set up?
2) I tried downloading the transaction from my bank. I download the amount and MD asks if I would like to categorize the transaction and add the splits. I click on categorize and then MD doesn't create the splits. Instead it reverts to the downloaded category "Bank Transaction." This same thing happens to my paycheck, which is a major pain. I haven't figured out how to work around this.
Win XP, SP3.
MD 2010r3 (751)
Paul
30 Posted by eddieb on 05 Aug, 2010 04:21 AM
Paul - I had the same problem with the split being the same every month (see post 25). Someone mentioned that if you don't auto commit the reminder and manually record it when it comes around every month, it will record the splits properly every month. I tried that and it "fixes" the problem.
Actually this is just a workaround as MD needs to really fix it so auto commit loan transactions work properly. But this workaround is actually pretty painless and only adds about 5 seconds of extra effort every month.