Split Transaction - Foreign Currency

Jon's Avatar

Jon

05 Jul, 2017 07:25 AM

Moneydance 2017 .3 (1622)

New File, Ex Rate Extension Not Installed
Created New Currency To Ensure None of these can cause the issue

Enter a New Transaction with a Single Line and it works fine.
Enter a New Transaction with Split and the Rate on the split is shown as 1 and needs to be manually entered.
The Rate is not defaulted

Please Note I also had this issue in 2015

http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions/problems/23890-unable-to-enter-split-currency-trx

This problem is stopping me upgrading as I enter a lot of Foreign Split Currency Transactions.

  1. 1 Posted by Jon on 16 Jul, 2017 09:29 AM

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    Does anyone at Infinite Kind / Moneydance offer support anymore ?
    11 Days and not even an acknowledgment ??

  2. 2 Posted by nomads.fryer on 07 Aug, 2017 03:33 AM

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    Count yourself lucky! I reported this issue to IK in March 2017 in some detail (and there is more wrong in this area than you mention in your post), and while I did get a few replies at first I haven't heard anything since May in spite of some reminders to them. The whole discussion has been moved by IK to the private discussion area, so you won't see it, but I assure you that I am as annoyed as you that nothing seems to be happening. I don't even know whether they have recognised it as a bug or have entered a trouble ticket or anything - just silence.

    They did fix the "Inverse currency rate" problem which was complicating the issue at first, but the issue you mention and its fallout still remains.

    Multi-currency support is why I moved to MD in the first place, and when I travel split transactions are common. This problem is a royal pain!

  3. Support Staff 3 Posted by Ian O on 07 Aug, 2017 03:10 PM

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    Hi,

    I hope you will both accept my sincerest apologies for the lack of support on this issue. I have raised this problem with the lead developer directly and he has confirmed that he will be looking into this. I will let you know what he says as soon as I have a response.

    Please accept my apologies again for the delay you have endured, I'd like to assure you that you can expect a higher level of service moving forward.

    Ian O
    Infinite Kind Support

  4. 4 Posted by nomads.fryer on 25 Sep, 2017 11:48 PM

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    Any progress towards resolving this issue?

  5. 5 Posted by Jon on 27 Sep, 2017 06:54 AM

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    Seven Weeks ago we were told to "expect a higher level of service", well
    we expected and have been totally let down.

    I am thankful that my version of Moneydance does all that I need. I
    therefore have no need of an upgrade and no need to pay IK.

    If they think they can exist with no revenue then they need to keep
    better accounts themselves.

    I love this application, I have over 16 years of history in my
    Moneydance files, and really want to support continued growth and
    development.

    Support is a Two Way street and this ticket seems to be typical of IK
    support at this time, support your customers so they will support you.

  6. System closed this discussion on 27 Dec, 2017 07:00 AM.

  7. Jon re-opened this discussion on 29 Mar, 2018 08:33 AM

  8. 6 Posted by Jon on 29 Mar, 2018 08:33 AM

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    Why did support close this ticket without a solution ?

  9. 7 Posted by dwg on 29 Mar, 2018 08:38 AM

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    I'm a fellow customer,

    The forum software automatically closes a discussion if there have been no posts for about 3 months, hence why it says that "System" closed the discussion.

  10. 8 Posted by nomads.fryer on 29 Mar, 2018 02:14 PM

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    This is still an open issue with me, and is still causing me grief. It is now 7 months since we were promised a speedy response, and only silence since then. Obviously IK are hoping the problem will go away, but it won't without some action from them. I expected better than this!

  11. Support Staff 9 Posted by Ian O on 08 Apr, 2018 10:19 AM

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    Hi,

    Please accept my sincere apologies again for the lack of response on this thread. I have been unable to replicate this behaviour in the most recent build of Moneydance. Would you like to try upgrading to see if this resolves the problems? If you let me know what version of Moneydance you are currently using, I will provide steps to take a secure backup before upgrading.

    The latest version is Moneydance 2017.7.1 (1671) and can be downloaded from here.

    If the problems persist after upgrading, we can look into arranging a TeamViewer session. This will allow me to log into your system to see what's happening. I'll be able to gather the information needed for the development team to get this resolved.

    Ian O
    Infinite Kind Support

  12. 10 Posted by nomads.fryer on 08 Apr, 2018 03:50 PM

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    Hi, Ian.

    Yes, the problem is still there in Build 1671, which I have been using for a little while. There seem to be occasional minor variations, but it’s still basically there.

    I would be happy to participate in a TeamViewer session at a mutually convenient time, to demonstrate the problem for you and to allow you to gather such information as would help. Let me know what is involved.

    Paul.

  13. 11 Posted by Jon on 08 Apr, 2018 05:35 PM

    Jon's Avatar

    I have just installed 2017.7.1 (1671) on a separate laptop.
    I will not put "New Moneydance" anywhere near my 18 years of Transaction Data.

    I have therefore used the Unlicensed Trial Version.
    The Download immediately shows Euro with an Exchange Rate, but when you check the Currency rates there is nothing. When you try the Currency History Report it says nothing to show.
    I tried this Currency and the issue still existed.
    So I deleted the Currency Euro and started it again.
    I entered Rates and tried again.

    Base Currency GBP
    Enter an Opening Salary Trx to the Current Account - So you have some funds to spend.
    Create a New Euro Account with Currency Euro
    Purchase Euro from the Current account and the rate is correctly defaulted from the rates.
    Enter a Euro Transaction without Split and the rate is defaulted correctly.
    Enter a Euro Transaction with a split - the first line gets the correct rate, the second line gets the rate = 1 - incorrect.

    You can do a screenshare if you like, but it really is easy to reproduce using your own download.

    I am sure you are embarrassed by the poor support we have had, but I have made the discussion Public again, for the second time. Please do not make it Private. We want a solution for this. I want to Upgrade and pay my fee, you need support from the user base to continue to enhance the product but I cannot upgrade with this issue and making it Private isn't going to get it solved.

  14. 12 Posted by Jon on 08 Apr, 2018 05:47 PM

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    Console Window Data for the Split Transaction Only...

    isEditingTxn()? editor: com.moneydance.apps.md.view.gui.txnreg.RegPSplitTxnEditor[,0,0,824x44,invalid,alignmentX=0.0,alignmentY=0.0,border=javax.swing.border.MatteBorder@7caa99,flags=16777224,maximumSize=,minimumSize=java.awt.Dimension[width=200,height=44],preferredSize=java.awt.Dimension[width=500,height=44]]; txn: SplitTxn: val=2231; amt=-2500; desc=Gas Station; stat= ; cat=Automotive:Fuel; tags=[(samt:2231)(acctid:f3f3bd4a-ca1f-416b-92bf-63d3dfb5ed7e)(id:0417f7e8-acc2-431d-b7f8-08400d9fde47)(pamt:-2500)(oldid:-1)(acct:42)(desc:Gas Station)(tags:)];dirty; ]
    recording (existing) txn editing: SplitTxn: val=2231; amt=-2500; desc=Gas Station; stat= ; cat=Automotive:Fuel; tags=[(samt:2231)(acctid:f3f3bd4a-ca1f-416b-92bf-63d3dfb5ed7e)(id:0417f7e8-acc2-431d-b7f8-08400d9fde47)(pamt:-2500)(oldid:-1)(acct:42)(desc:Gas Station)(tags:)];dirty; ]
    recording (new) txn editing: [ParentTxn(null) desc=; val=0; stat= ; #splits=0; chk=; acct=New Euro Account; date=20180312; dirty; splits=; ]
    opening txns log file for writing: tiksync/out/20180408174701_761.txn-tmp

  15. 13 Posted by Jon on 08 Apr, 2018 05:52 PM

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    Screenshot of Trx

  16. 14 Posted by Jon on 08 Apr, 2018 05:56 PM

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    Inc and Expense Detail Report

    Notice the second Split is treated as if it were GBP

  17. 15 Posted by Jon on 08 Apr, 2018 06:00 PM

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    Try again to display as html

  18. Support Staff 16 Posted by Ian O on 09 Apr, 2018 09:25 AM

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    Hi Jon and Paul,

    Thank you for supplying the steps to reproduce this issue. They were crystal clear and I can confirm I have now reproduced the issue within a data file. I'll be communicating with our development team today and will update you as soon as I have further information.

    The discussion was assigned as private as I had offered a TeamViewer session - sensitive information can be given when arranging and setting up these sessions (We also don't offer TeamViewer sessions as standard level support - only when troubleshooting bugs or the rare instances email support isn't appropriate).

    As I have been able to replicate the problem with your steps, a TeamViewer session won't be required so I'm happy to leave this as public.

    I'll ensure the development team are made aware that this issue has been present for some time, so we can work to get a resolution as quickly as possible.

    Ian O
    Infinite Kind Support

  19. 17 Posted by nomads.fryer on 10 Apr, 2018 01:25 AM

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    Hi Ian.

    Good to hear that you have been able to duplicate the main part of the issue. However, I would encourage the developers to explore related aspects that fall out from it, e.g.
    - Reports (as well as the register) show the first split line correctly converted into the base currency, but subsequent ones show the amount as the foreign currency as if it were the base currency.
    - It is sometimes possible to manually enter a Rate for the second and subsequent lines, as long as you do it at the same time as you are entering those lines. If you try and do it later, the Rate appears to go in, but disappears as soon as you move on.
    - Sometimes, even the first line of a split doesn’t get a Rate assigned: this often seems to happen if using a Description (merchant) that hasn’t been used before. But not always.
    - Entries of 1.0 appear in the currency tables.
    - In the register, the foreign amount for completed split transactions isn’t shown for the Split total as it is for simple transactions. If you highlight the split transaction, however, the foreign amount does show up, albeit grayed out. It should always show.
    - It currently isn’t possible to go back and correct entries that were erroneously defaulted to Rate=1. This is important to be able to go back and fix history.

    And I am sure there are more. But it could be that once the basic problem has been fixed, all these ‘funnies’ will automatically straighten out.

    Paul.

  20. Support Staff 18 Posted by Ian O on 10 Apr, 2018 12:17 PM

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    Hi Paul,

    Thanks for sending through the additional information on various strange behaviours you are seeing. I'll ensure these comments are passed to the developer as they might prove useful. As you have pointed out, it may be that the once the core issue is resolved these other issues will be eliminated. Regardless, the more information we have, the better positioned we'll be to get things straightened out. I appreciate you taking the time to jot down these observations, if you uncover anything else please let me know.

    I'll let you know as soon as I have further information on this issue. Apologies again for the inconvenience this issue has caused.

    Ian O
    Infinite Kind Support

  21. 19 Posted by nomads.fryer on 28 Apr, 2018 01:43 AM

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    Another related thing that has only recently started happening, is that simple (non-split) transactions are picking up the 1.00 Rate entries in the currency table, and thus effectively not always getting the correct base ('foreign') currency equivalent. It appears to have started once currency downloads from Yahoo stopped and started to use AlphaVantage, and AlphaVantage seems to only be able to download less than 20% of currency exchange rates into Canadian $$ (unfortunately, the $US/$Can rate, which I use a lot, is one it rarely if ever seems to get).

    This may be part of the split transaction problem, so perhaps you can advise the developers that the needs to be checked as well.

    And talking of which, is there any progress towards getting the foreign currency split-transaction problem identified and resolved?

  22. System closed this discussion on 28 Jul, 2018 01:50 AM.

  23. Jon re-opened this discussion on 06 Sep, 2018 06:45 AM

  24. 20 Posted by Jon on 06 Sep, 2018 06:49 AM

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    Reopened the discussion again.
    The system just closing a ticket because you don't work it is abysmal "Support".
    I don't update, not because the issue went away or I lost interest, I don't update it because I have nothing new to add.
    You have posted on Facebook again announcing a discount. Why would I "Upgrade" to a version that is flawed in an area that is important to me. ?

  25. 21 Posted by nomads.fryer on 06 Sep, 2018 09:33 PM

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    Thanks, Jon, for keeping this discussion open. The similarone I started last year seems to have gone into the private domain (I.e. Just between IK and me.) I keep prodding them, but never get even an acknowledgement. I can't believe that you and I are the only ones with this issue, but judging from IK's level of attention you would think so. What more can we do?

    Paul.

  26. 22 Posted by dwg on 06 Sep, 2018 10:04 PM

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    I'm a fellow user.

    If you are not satisfied with the support you are receiving I can only suggest you do what people should initially do whenever they are dissatisfied and that is complain to the management.

    In the case of Moneydance that means Sean Reilly and his email is

    sreilly (at) infinitekind (dot) com

    It can only be hoped that is enough people make enough noise the message gets through.

  27. Support Staff 23 Posted by Jenny on 14 Sep, 2018 01:08 PM

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    Hi Jon and Paul,

    We've released a new preview version of Moneydance that should help resolve this problem. The preview version fixes the bug that set the default exchange rate to 1.0, for new inter-currency entries in a split transaction.
    The new preview version is 2017.10 build 1701 and can be downloaded from this page. Can you try upgrading and let me know if the problems persist? Take a manual backup of your file via File --> Export Backup before you download the newer version.
    If you'd prefer not to download the preview version, I will flag this discussion so you're notified when these fixes are included in the stable release.

    Jenny
    Infinite Kind Support

  28. 24 Posted by nomads.fryer on 15 Sep, 2018 12:54 AM

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    Hi Jenny. Thanks for the communication.

    I downloaded the beta you identified, and it helps (quite a lot) with this issue. As long as I am careful when I do the entry, and do it in one particular way, I seem to get the correct exchange rate applied for all the split transactions.

    But I still see the following problems:

    1. I still cannot go back and edit the exchange rate for a split line after I have moved on to the next one, or after I have committed the transaction. The correction appears to go in, but reverts as soon as I move on. I can do this editing for simple transactions. I need to be able to do this to correct my history of incorrect exchange rates, as well as dealing with problem #2.

    2. If I make a split entry that ‘overflows’ the transaction total that I originally put in, then I get an exchange rate which is the inverse of the correct value (e.g. 0.75 instead of 1.33) for the overflow split line. The transaction total correctly shows the increased amount in the account currency. Attempts to edit the transaction occasionally work OK, but more often get into deeper trouble.
    [ Example procedure to show this: make a new transaction in the foreign account of $10.00 with category “Pharmacy” - 10.00 shows in the Charge column, 1.33 shows in the Rate box, and 13.30 shows in the Foreign Amount box - OK. Enter command-L for a split, then Command-N for a new split line, and immediately 0.75 shows up in the Rate box; I then enter category “Groceries” and an amount of 20.00, and I get a foreign amount of 15.00. I cannot edit the 0.75 Rate amount permanently. If I then save the split transaction, I get a Charge amount total of $30.00 (correct), with one correct and one wrong foreign amount.]
    ’Overflowing’ splits like this in non-foreign accounts works fine.

    I can and will use this improved version, but there is still some way to go Please feed these issues back to the development team. Please keep me up-to-date.

    I will continue to experiment further in this area, and let you know if I find anything else.

    Paul.

  29. 25 Posted by Jon on 15 Sep, 2018 01:38 PM

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    I have also tested the beta Version.
    I confirm Paul's finding.

    The Rate Defaulted at the Header Transaction is correct.
    If I then click Split the Rate shown is the inverse.

    I don't see this as resolved

  30. 26 Posted by Jon on 17 Sep, 2018 08:33 PM

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    In Addition...
    The Rate Defaulted at Header Level is the rate applicable for the date of the last edited transaction.

    My Expectation would be that the Rate is Defaulted for the Transaction Date and then it updates as either I +/- on the date field or if I key a new date the rate should change to the applicable rate for that date with the OPTION to Update it.

    If you can default the inverse of the rate you are defaulting in the Beta version and also update the rate using the transaction date then I will accept the solution.

    Thank you,

    Jon

  31. 27 Posted by nomads.fryer on 20 Sep, 2018 02:20 PM

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    In principle, that would work for me too. However, the ability to retroactively edit the exchange rate in individual split lines is important too, since I have 2 years worth of incorrect foreign split transactions that need correcting. Such editing is possible in non-foreign splits.

    Paul.

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