Reconciling Transactions - Bring Back MD2008 style or Improve the MD2010 style?
If you look at ticket 2274 in bug track, you will see a growing movement to bring back the old style of reconciling transactions. I thought that there may be some users that look at this forum more than at bug tracker, so I thought it made some sense to start a discussion over here.
Clearly, the current state of downloading and reconciling transactions needs more work. Clearly, it is different from MD2008. It is actually more like Microsoft Money (though not as efficient), so as a former Money user, I guess it wasn't as different to me as to some.
There have also been some growing pains with this approach. I have seen where people thought they couldn't change the category, or other parts of the record before hitting the Accept button. My experience has been that if you double click on the record you want to change, you can edit any part of it just like a regular record, then hit enter when you are though editing, then the accept button at the bottom to accept the edited transaction (and make the blue circle go away). I also don't think the unreconciled transactions are reflected in any of the balances until they are accepted, but I wish the development staff would weigh in on this.
Below is a copy of the post I made for that bug which states where I am with it, along with my "guess" of why it was so radically changed. I think it would help us all if the developer (or staff) would state the reasons for such a change. I think the statements made by the development staff in previous posts that MD2010 would be "released in few days" has led people to panic a little.
The only thing I would add to the "list of improvements" I gave in the post below is based on ticket 2270 which would add a button to the top of the register where you could display only "unreconciled transactions". There is already one for "uncleared" transactions, but I have some accounts that I don't use the cleared flag on, so "uncleared" records alone doesn't always get it for me.
Rather than start all over, I hope we can try and make some suggestions to the developer to improve what he already has.
What does everyone else think?
____________________________ my post for ticket 2274 below ____________________________________
The transaction downloading and acceptance process is certainly different, but I am not sure that I want to go all the way back to the 2008 method. I think that a lot of these changes were brought about by the desire to have a "download all" button. When you do that, and have multiple transactions for multiple accounts, some will have to go somewhere other than a dialogue box on the screen, if they are for an account not being shown on the screen at the time of the download. If you have transactions for say 3 accounts, you would have to have some kind of "loop" which forces the user to reconcile (or at least view) them all. I would rather view them when I want to, not when the program wants me to. It is different, but I am starting to get used to it.
That said, their is still work that needs to be done to make the transaction download and acceptance process smoother. The "accept all" button that will appear at the bottom of the register when you select multiple downloaded transactions still doesn't work in 715, that needs to be fixed. The "download progress" for the accounts is the clearest when the Home page is showing (you can see the blue dots appear next to the accounts). When you download individual accounts the "complete" messages are just holdovers from MD 2008, and don't really have the same meaning in MD2010. And I really would like to see a third option in the "Accept" list of choices to match this transaction with another one (manual matching).
But I think with a few tweaks, this could work.
Comments are currently closed for this discussion. You can start a new one.
2 Posted by Randy on 04 Dec, 2009 03:52 PM
I may have used the wrong terminology in the above post, instead of "unreconciled" transactions, a better choice would be "unaccepted" transactions. You can accept a transaction before you reconcile.
3 Posted by Ian on 05 Dec, 2009 08:37 AM
MD2010 confused the hell out of me when I tried to download transactions and reconcile my account, so much so that I put it down and went back to 2008 whilst they fixed it or put the technology in to reconcile.
If what we have is the reconciliation method then I need to try and understand the logic better.
Ian
4 Posted by eddieb on 06 Dec, 2009 01:00 AM
In MD 2008, if you go to the "Online " button and then click "Show Online Transactions", it opens up a section on the bottom that allows you to change, record, delete and match downloaded transactions. Much more flexibility than what I can see in MD 2010 now.
The "Show Online Transactions" exists in MD 2010, but it's grayed out and unavailable. I could be wrong, but I seem to remember an earlier build of MD 2010 which allowed the use of that button and opened a section in the top of MD 2010 (as opposed to the bottom in MD 2008) that allowed more options similar to MD 2008.
Why is that button unavailable in MD 2010?
5 Posted by Randy on 06 Dec, 2009 01:24 AM
Well, you can change, delete, or "accept" instead of record downloaded transactions with MD2010 beta. What you can't do is manually match an incoming downloaded transaction to a different one in your register if Moneydance's matching algorithm guesses wrong.
But you couldn't manually match in MD2008 either. Microsoft money had another option after the transactions had been downloaded and the algorithm had made its guesses called "match this transaction to another in the register". You could hit that button and it would pull up a list of uncleared transactions with check boxes next to them and you could just check the box next to one and it would use the description and category and tags from that transaction, but the date and amount from the incoming transaction. It would also restore the incorrectly matched transaction to its original state in the register.
So far, no one at Moneydance thinks that is important. I guess they get all their manually entered transactions right every time.
6 Posted by eddieb on 06 Dec, 2009 01:31 AM
You're right Randy. There should be the ability to match manually. I'm coming from Quicken and it allows that. As a work around, thinking off the top of my head, you would have to change the downloaded transaction to what it should be, accept it and then delete the one already in your register that you wanted to match the downloaded one against against but couldn't. Not fun.
But maybe there's an easier way someone out there, user or MD person, could let us know about.
Support Staff 7 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 06 Dec, 2009 01:40 AM
Just wanted to chime in and say that we're hard at work on Moneydance 2010, as well as the supporting documentation. Our developer is still putting the final touches on the program, so when we have the final version locked in we'll release more info.
Thanks all for your input, please remember to add your input to the Moneydance 2010 trac page.
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
8 Posted by Randy on 06 Dec, 2009 02:19 AM
I guess I am beating this to death, but there is one more reason I think manual matching of transactions is important.
I assume that Moneydance doesn't try to match incoming transactions to reminders, since I have never seen it automatically get rid of an instance in the reminder calendar because a downloaded transaction came in.
MS Money matched incoming transactions not only to the register, but to scheduled bills (Reminders) as well, but I must admit, it didn't do as good a job on the scheduled bills and it did on the register. When you have the "download all transactions to all accounts" on as MD2010 supports, and assuming that Moneydance continues to match to the register only, it becomes easy for a downloaded transaction to "beat" the Reminder to the register (in my case because I scheduled it a little late). I used to use that feature in Money all the time. After the downloaded transaction came in (and got matched incorrectly), I would go to the "reminders", record the transaction from there (because it had my detailed splits and categories in it), then come back and use the manual match feature to straighten it out.
I just don't think you can make an algorithm smart enough to overcome all user mistakes (and I make plenty of them). The manual match gives an out, without the user having to key everything in again.
9 Posted by Randy on 06 Dec, 2009 02:44 PM
Ok, I have added an enhancement for manual transaction matching (ticket #2299) to Trac. I encourage everyone that agrees to vote on it, (and if you don't agree, comment on it). maybe we will at least get more than we have now in the final release.
10 Posted by Randy on 07 Dec, 2009 02:34 PM
Just to update this:
Build 719 offers some changes in transaction acceptance in that more choices for description and category are offered on the acceptance line next to the accept button, but in my preliminary testing, none of the additional choices really helped. They were from other transactions that didn't have anything to do with the one I was accepting. If anything, they may have added a little more confusion to the process.
Unless the developer is going to look to scheduled reminders to try and match transactions there OR provide a manual matching capability, I don't think this process will be improved. I have some scheduled reminders that have as many as 6 splits, and I wanted to avoid having to re-key a lot of information, or have to go through the acceptance process 2 times for a transaction.
Consider the following scenario: I have a scheduled bill with 6 splits in it, but the total amount varies by month. For whatever reason (senior moment), I forget to go to the reminder calendar and record the transaction before I download transactions. When I realize the register now contains this bill (with blue circle), I have two choices:
I can go to the reminder calendar, record the transaction from there (changing the splits and total amount based on the downloaded amount), mark it cleared, then delete the downloaded transaction (one with the blue circle). HOWEVER, I also have to remember that the next time I download transactions, this transaction will come in again, and be now matched to the one that I just entered from the reminder calendar, so I have to accept it again. I just confirmed this in build 719 testing.
I can take the downloaded transaction and key in the splits from the transaction in the reminder calendar, then "skip" the transaction in the reminder calendar, then accept this transaction (and mark it cleared). While this avoids having to go through the acceptance process twice, it does introduce a lot of extra keying, and kind of defeats the purpose of downloading transactions in the first place.
Note that in some cases this all can be avoided by being diligent about entering reminders early, but even then there are times where the downloaded amounts are so different from the amounts found in the reminder calendar, that the matching algorithm doesn't match them anyway. It that case you have to resort to one of the two methods above.
I hope it is not too late to provide additional functionality in this area.
11 Posted by Tony on 11 Dec, 2009 04:00 PM
Add my voice to those disliking 2010 download/match process - it it not as easy or as safe as 2008. It results in duplicate transaction often. Please go back to what worked.
Also, please give us back the icons top right to get to home page, reports etc.
2010 is several steps backwards in my opinion.....
12 Posted by jklan on 12 Dec, 2009 03:05 AM
The developer needs to get an copy of Quicken 2000 and look at the user interfaces, Then modify 2010 to do the same things plus add the automatic features. Quicken 2000 was a very user-friendly and accurate program. Something else to be learned from Quicken is to stay out of my face and life. I want an accounting program which is private and my interaction with the developer is to supply the program.
13 Posted by sgodfrey2000 on 12 Dec, 2009 03:53 AM
Just installed 2010. Took me forever to find out how to reconcile. Where did all the neat buttons go!!!!! Plus I agree with others that I do not like the new transaction reconcile. Bring back the list at the bottom of the screen. It stands out better. Plus nothing is added in the register until you do it. Also agree that the Icons n the top need to come back. First thing I did was to hide the list on the side. It just takes up way too much screen space for too little benefit.
When will the help file be brought up to date. Not good using a new product with so many changes and no help!!!
Plus you need to issue a "FULL" here's what new view comparing 2008 method to 2010 method. Would have helped me find the darn Reconcile function. Plus why in the world is it under Edit??????
One more note. The first time I downloaded transactions. I clicked on the description list next to the Accept button. I picked something just to see what would happen. Moneydance froze completely. I had to Force Quit. I'll never use that function again!!!!
14 Posted by avp2 on 12 Dec, 2009 05:59 PM
Somewhere I posted I had a problem deleting downloaded transactions and suggested a "delete" button be added. I don't seem to be able to find that post so putting here that I finally noticed the keyboard "delete" action and that works Ok. Still would like to see a delete near the accept button and I agree that manual matching is a necessity that should be easier to do.
Support Staff 15 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 13 Dec, 2009 07:27 PM
We are working on getting updated FAQ and support documentation for Moneydance 2010, and are working to catch up with the inquiries we are receiving for Moneydance 2010. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused. In the meantime, our wiki is integrated with our feature request and bug reporting system. I encourage you to register and use these systems to help improve Moneydance by bringing bugs to our attention and requesting new features.
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
16 Posted by mike on 13 Dec, 2009 08:21 PM
Angie,
I have registered. The system does not allow me to post anything. I'll keep at it here.
Mike
17 Posted by alannies on 14 Dec, 2009 07:36 PM
Just to add my 2cents--I agree with all the gripes. Partly because we are used to MD2008, the new setup is hard to get used to and doesn't seem to add anything. I think we need an action button for printing checks and reconciling. Also the accepting the downloaded transactions is severely dysfunctional. A manual match would be great and I did like the list as in 2008. Also I have tried several times to post to the trac and it won't allow me even though I have registered.
Alan
Support Staff 18 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 14 Dec, 2009 07:44 PM
The trac system generally requires authentication of your email address before posting. Please try checking your mailbox to see if this email is there (possibly caught in the spam filter).
Let me know if I can be of further assistance,
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
19 Posted by jklan on 14 Dec, 2009 08:02 PM
Angie,
I checked the filtered emails and don't find the confirmation. Could you
send me another? Or remove my registration and I'll re-register.
Thanks
Joel
-----Original Message-----
From: Angie Rauscher
[mailto:***@tenderapp.com]
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 11:45 AM
To: ***@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Reconciling Transactions - Bring Back MD2008 style or Improve
the MD2010 style? [MD2010 beta]
20 Posted by azguy6 on 29 Dec, 2009 04:38 PM
I just downloaded the most recent version (735 i think) and noticed that the entries into the register is different... Before, it at least would match them to the existing entries I had in the register already, but now they are all entered as new and then I have to go in and tell it to merge...
I am just disabling online download for now -- it is not working in a very efficient manner. It is taking me 2x as long to download from the bank vs. just entering everything manually. The downloads from the bank are either getting duplicated, or have to be "accepted" as is and then re-edited to show the right payee name or category.
Support Staff 21 Posted by Sean Reilly on 29 Dec, 2009 04:58 PM
azguy6: I believe your issue can be resolved by checking the "Automatically Merge Downloaded Transactions" box in the preferences window.
Moneydance 2010r2 adds this option and turns it off by default because transactions can now be merged at the time of confirmation and the initial downloads have always been the ones that were vulnerable to false matches.
22 Posted by azguy6 on 29 Dec, 2009 05:07 PM
Thanks Sean. I saw that option but was worried it would merge
incorrectly. I will make a backup of my file and try this.
Thanks
Trevor
Sent from my iPhone
23 Posted by avp2 on 29 Dec, 2009 05:10 PM
The more I use the new matching interface, the better I like it; compared to the old method, of course - I am not saying there might be something better.
I did take awhile for me to understand that you need to click the drop-down list to see what might be a good match vs the "confirm" default. BTW, I think the default category for a newly downloaded transaction ought to be whatever default was setup in the account's preferences vs the current "uncategorized" (which is also added to your data file's list of categories and I did not want). Perhaps also changing the description in the drop-down list for similar matches (really possibles that are not actual unmatched entries) to "similar previous transactions" might add some clarity.
In using build 735 in have noticed once that, after a transaction was accepted and no more unmatched transactions were left, the match bar did not disappear until I selected a register transaction; I only noticed it once so far.
I also think a delete/do-not-enter-in-the-register button next to the "accept" button might help the change to the new interface. It is a bit discomforting to see incorrect transactions just stuck in the register even though you can select it and hit the delete key or double-click for editing before messing with the "accept" button/bar at all.
24 Posted by azguy6 on 29 Dec, 2009 05:19 PM
I tried using the drop down list and it worked fine. The problem was
transactions that previously downloaded fine (say McDonalds and
category dining) were now being suggested to 3 different restaurants,
my student loan payment, or cash withdrawal. To accept it, I had to
accept it as is and then go in and re-type it correctly.
Sent from my iPhone
Support Staff 25 Posted by Angie Rauscher on 30 Dec, 2009 12:45 AM
Joel and Alannies, you should now have trac permission. Sorry for the delay, let me know if you continue to have problems.
Angie Rauscher
Moneydance Support
26 Posted by jklan on 30 Dec, 2009 01:44 AM
Angie,
I tried to get onto the wiki/trac system again and still the permissions are
reporting forbidden access.
-----Original Message-----
From: Angie Rauscher
[mailto:***@tenderapp.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 4:45 PM
To: ***@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Reconciling Transactions - Bring Back MD2008 style or Improve
the MD2010 style? [MD2010 beta]
// Add your reply above here
27 Posted by jklan on 30 Dec, 2009 01:56 AM
Re: 735
1. "Find " is not functioning.
28 Posted by azguy6 on 31 Dec, 2009 06:35 PM
Sean-
I re-enabled the downloads and enabled the auto-merge option. For most things it looked like it worked well.
For one of my accounts though, it did not merge the transaction with the manual entry I had already put in the account. When I looked in the drop down, I only was given the option to accept it with the changes to the name/category that MD suggested (which ultimately would be the same name/category I would of used anyways) or ignore the transaction. It didn't give me the option to merge it with the existing transaction.
This needs to be an option if the auto-merge doesn't work. otherwise, it is counter-intuitive to have to accept it and then go back in and delete the original transaction. There needs to be a way to select the transaction it should merge with.
29 Posted by Ian on 31 Dec, 2009 07:00 PM
I agree, I want to be able to manually match downloaded transactions to exisiting ones. I use Moneydance to forecast my financial position and therefore enter transactions ahead of time.
I currently find myself having to download exisiting transactions MD failed to match.
Ian
30 Posted by Randy on 31 Dec, 2009 07:20 PM
@azguy6,
their is another way, see post 132 here:
http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions/problems/497-matching-down...
31 Posted by azguy6 on 01 Jan, 2010 07:16 PM
Thanks Randy - I double checked the information, and the manual entry was the same with amount , date, etc. I agree that checking that could be why it didn't match it in the first place, but if that fails, one is left with having to accept and delete another transaction.
I liked the way that MS Money handled it, if you didnt like the match, you could hit unmatch and then choose a different transaction. Once that was done a few times, MS Money didn't "mis-match" it in the future.