dropbox huge number of files?

James Mellema's Avatar

James Mellema

12 Mar, 2018 04:36 PM

We've been using moneydance with 6 checking accounts for a number of years now.
Our dropbox/moneydancesync/#@%#%$$%^%$&?/v3 folder contains 59,582 little files!
that is FIFTY NINE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED EIGHTY TWO.

Syncing has been kinda weird for a long time.
Balances under BANK in the left column are not always correct and tend to move around.
The balances shown when reconciling drift around all over the place.

Is there any way to compress this?

Note I have asked this question in this manner several times in the past, and that I know of have never received a reply.
Please email my reply to my email address above.

Jim

  1. 1 Posted by derekkent23 on 12 Mar, 2018 04:50 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.

    You don’t state what build of 2017 you are running. See under HELP – ABOUT MONEYDANCE. e.g. I am running 2017.7(1668)

    Over time there has been a number of syncing bug fixes. The last preview build for example has this in the change log “Fix syncing bug that caused Moneydance to re-download changes since the last local save. This speeds up file loading, syncing, and prevents the data from jumping around shortly after launch.”
    Assuming you purchased direct and not through Apply and that your build is not up to date try updating all your computers from https://infinitekind.com/preview

    If this does not help then you may need to reset syncing. Post again if you want to try that. Give a list of devices you are syncing, there operating system and the syncing method you are currently using .e.g. Dropbox Folder.

    Hope this helps.

  2. 2 Posted by James Mellema on 12 Mar, 2018 05:18 PM

    James Mellema's Avatar

    My laptop has moneydance 2017.5.
    I've downloaded the current release, but it gives no clue what version it is.
    (I won't be downloading or installing anything from a folder labelled "preview", no beta's for me.)
    My android has the current version available on the play store, 1.15 from July of 2017 (seems old)

    This does not seem to be an update or even error related issue.
    Everytime anything is done, a tiny file is saved to the dropbox. Heck, when you reconcile each and every mouse click is saved. They have been building up for years.
    59,000 plus now.

    I'm looking for an answer from my vendor if this is an issue, and if there is a resolution?
    Ignore it?
    delete everything and load a backup?
    Something less extreme?

  3. 3 Posted by Charlie on 12 Mar, 2018 08:55 PM

    Charlie's Avatar

    Hi,
    I am running Version 2017.6 (1656)
    I also have a large number of moneydance files in my dropbox 760.
     Is it safe to delete them?
    What gives with all the files anyway?

  4. 4 Posted by James Mellema on 12 Mar, 2018 11:45 PM

    James Mellema's Avatar

    updated to 2017.6 (1656) the latest released version.
    opened, closed and reopened moneydance.

    dropbox file count now fifty nine thousand five hundred eighty one.

  5. 5 Posted by James Mellema on 14 Mar, 2018 03:50 PM

    James Mellema's Avatar

    Filecount up over SIXTY THOUSAND NOW...

    I'm mostly wondering if this is normal?
    Is it something that can or should be fixed?

    Does infinitekind support actually look at this forum, or at question submitted to their "contact support" link on their website?
    Is 2 days and counting a normal time to get a response?

  6. 6 Posted by James Mellema on 21 Mar, 2018 03:40 PM

    James Mellema's Avatar

    3-21...
    9 days with no reply from Infinitekind...
    Last I recall this is not free software, I paid for this, and support was part of the deal.
    Does Infinitekind support respond to questions on this board?

  7. Support Staff 7 Posted by Ian O on 21 Mar, 2018 04:47 PM

    Ian O's Avatar

    Hi James,

    Please accept my sincere apologies for the lack of response on this thread. It does seem that you have an extraordinarily large number of files in your syncing folder. I have asked our lead developer if he can think of any reason there would be so many files. He will be best placed to let us know how to safely get things back up and running again. I'll let you know his thoughts as soon as I have heard back.

    I understand your reluctance to download the preview version of Moneydance. The preview version contains a number of improvements not yet included in the stable release that could help with the syncing issues you are seeing.

    Please accept my apologies again for the long wait in hearing from us on this issue. I'll ensure you receive speedier responses going forward.

    Ian O
    Infinite Kind Support

  8. Support Staff 8 Posted by Sean Reilly on 21 Mar, 2018 10:05 PM

    Sean Reilly's Avatar

    Hi James,

    I'd like to add that the large number of files shouldn't be a problem in and of itself, but we can take a look at the files and timestamps and trim the older ones. Moneydance does sync by storing a lot of smaller encrypted files, each of which represents a set of changes to the overall data set. I will echo Ian's comment that the preview version will resolve the issue with the numbers jumping around a bit immediately after opening a synced file. This same preview version will be available as a stable release any day now - basically as soon as we get the blog post and other associated details ready, but the code is set.

    Thanks,

    Sean Reilly
    Developer, The Infinite Kind
    http://infinitekind.com

  9. 9 Posted by jimm on 22 Mar, 2018 01:27 PM

    jimm's Avatar

    Original message
    From: "Sean Reilly" <[email blocked]>
    To: [email blocked];
    Dated: 3/21/2018 6:05:07 PM
    Subject: Re: dropbox huge number of files? [Syncing Moneydance with iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, and Android Devices #11320]

    Sean and Ian, thanks for the replies.
    Note that other than some "flakyness" displaying balances, and longterm issues syncing to and from the iPhone (sometimes have to forcequit and restart to get it to sync at all) my system is "working."

    But it makes me nervous.

    I've history going back to 1-1-2016 on 4 personal and 2 business accounts.
    The business primary is in quickbooks, with moneydance a backup.
    The personal accounts, moneydance is it. Expected to take the place of paper check registers, with the ability to "go back" to any date to look up a check or payment.

    I only go back to 1-1-16 because that is the last time my laptop died, taking all records with it.
    I now have moneydance set to backup on exit and save the backup to dropbox.

    I've learned the hardway that the main moneydance file in the PC is "IT", and the phones are merely slaves.

    That huge filecount living in a free cloud service scares me to death.
    I remember various photo saving sites going out of business, selling out, or going "not free." Thousands of people lost their data completely. Or what if 1 file gets an error or gets lost? How important is each and every one of those 66,000 files?

    In an ideal world, I'd like to go back to a "default" setup, but WITHOUT losing any of my history in either the laptop or my android and iPhone, reducing my dropbox sync file count to ONE and starting over.

    Awaiting your reply.

    Jim

  10. Support Staff 10 Posted by Sean Reilly on 22 Mar, 2018 03:51 PM

    Sean Reilly's Avatar

    Hi Jim,

    Not to worry if you're using Moneydance 2017 with syncing enabled then you have two complete encrypted copies of your data already: 1) on your local computer (more if you count all of the automatically made backups) and 2) the copy on dropbox. Either one of Dropbox or your local hard drive could be completely wiped out and you could still restore your full data set (minus any cached online passwords, which aren't synced across the dropbox data).

    In fact, the large number of txn files represents the full history of your data in that file, and all of those files are kept both in the sync folder as well as in the local file. Believe me, your data is safe :)

    As for the security of the data in dropbox, that is also safe from others because it is encrypted using the passphrase you provided when setting up syncing.

    If it's just the number of files that is worrying you then we can solve that too. We could solve it manually now by simply deleting any txn files from the Dropbox/.moneydancesync/v3/ folder that are older than the least recent sync from any computer or mobile device that was syncing to that file. A future version of Moneydance (I'm aiming to have this done this year) will do this mostly automatically, but we're still working out some details related to how Moneydance knows that all devices have synced the most recent data.

    Thanks,
    Sean

  11. 11 Posted by sprimost on 24 Mar, 2018 08:43 PM

    sprimost's Avatar

    *From*: sprimost

    I am not support staff, just a user.

    Just a word of caution from my long experience with moneydance....a
    great product!

    Never trust the backup to the "cloud" such as Dropbox (still not sure
    who "owns" the data). The most tried and true method is always keep
    three "generations" of backup -- today, yesterday, and the day before
    yesterday. so that if a backup fails (and it will, by Murphy's Law), you
    will always have a good one. I always do a monthly trial recovery to
    test that I can recover while I still have a good file!

     From all of the good discussion on this group, the best method is to
    export the data, as this seems to be the most resilient method over
    software versions (until proven otherwise). I don't know how many times
    have the export copy saved me from total disaster!

    As mentioned in some earlier posts, when accessing and updating (any)
    data from multiple input streams (devices), it is hard to figure out
    which is the master and which transaction to count as the latest one.
    The best advice is really be careful and make sure the updates are
    propagated across all devices.

    Just my experience and (two cents worth) opinion

  12. 12 Posted by jim on 28 Mar, 2018 01:07 PM

    jim's Avatar

    I installed the 2017.7 update yesterday, when it was released.

    The update has had zero effect on the number of files in my dropbox sync folder.

    Note:
    I am not concerned about the security of my data.
    I am not concerned about losing my backup(s) of my primary moneydance data.

    I'm just a bit concerned with having sixty four thousand files on a free third party site counting my money. After all, the site is free. if they lose a file, they owe me nothing. Since these files do affect my primary file, losing a file could change it?

    Am I worried about nothing?

    Is there a way to get this syncing to "start over" without losing any history?

  13. 13 Posted by derekkent23 on 28 Mar, 2018 02:08 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.

    If you delete the “.moneydancesync” folder in Dropbox you lose nothing, so don’t worry about that. in fact, part of the reset sync procedure is to delete that folder. If for some reason syncing fails and some transactions had not been synced back from your phones to your computer these tranactions would be the only data to be lost.

    Reading back through the thread you are syncing one computer, one Android phone and one iPhone, correct?

    I may have missed it but I don’t think you indicated what syncing method you are using, Dropbox folder or Dropbox Connection. I would recommend Dropbox Folder.
    Dropbox Folder requires you to download and install Dropbox Client on all your computers. Dropbox Folder is more flexible. For example, with Dropbox Connection if you lose your internet connection when running Moneydance you could lose data. With Dropbox Connect a API in Moneydance talks direct to your Dropbox file in the cloud. Whereas with Dropbox Folder Moneydance talks to the local Dropbox folder on your hard drive created by the Dropbox client. Then syncs to your cloud Dropbox folder when the internet is available.

    The following is an explanation given by Sean the software developer regarding these two syncing methods, Dropbox Folder and Dropbox Connection.
    “With "Dropbox Connection" Moneydance uses the Dropbox API to talk to the Dropbox service directly. So, you don't need to have Dropbox client actually installed on your computer, but you do need to be online when Moneydance is running in order for changes to be synced. With "Drobox Folder" Moneydance will just read and write files to your Dropbox folder on your computer, which means that you need to have Dropbox client installed and running, but you don't need to be online in order for Moneydance to read and write the changes.”

    Assuming you have one computer, one Android phone and one iPhone then reset procedure.

    1. For both your phones use there setting menu to disconnect.

    2. Set Moneydances “Sync Method” to “Don’t Sync” under FILE – SYNCING, then click OK.

    3. Use FILE – EXPORT BACKUP to save a backup in case something goes wrong.

    4. Then shut down Moneydance. If you are using Dropbox as the backup location wait till the Dropbox icon states “Up to Date”. This can take some time.

    5. Using your computer, in the Dropbox folder delete the folder “.moneydancesync”. Watch the Dropbox icon and wait till it states “Up to Date”.

    6. Open Moneydance on your computer under FILE - SYNCING, set your “Encryption Passphrase”, set “Sync Method” to “Dropbox Folder”, click OK.

    7. Wait for Dropbox folder “.moneydancesync” and its contents to be created. Check the Dropbox icon states “Up to Date”.

    8. Set up syncing to your mobile devices following this article. http://help.infinitekind.com/kb/syncing-and-sharing-data/syncing-wi...

    Wait for your data to be synced.

    I would recommend not having more than two devices running Moneydance at one time. My set up is two computers and one phone. I found if I have all three devices running Moneydance at the same time I could occasionally get syncing errors, be warned. I reported this the Sean the lead software developer but as far as I know, no fix yet.
    You can set up as many devices as you like for syncing, but only run Moneydance on two devices at a time. For, example if you have Moneydance running on one computer and a phone shut down Moneydance on one of these before opening Moneydance on another device.

    Hope this helps

  14. 14 Posted by jim on 29 Mar, 2018 12:09 AM

    jim's Avatar

    I am using dropbox folder.
    1 PC, 1 android, 1 iPhone.
    Disabling any one of them ever is not an option.

    Derek, I think your issue is having 2 "masters" (PC's)
    Remember the phones are just slaves, the real data lives only in the datafile on the PC.

  15. 15 Posted by derekkent23 on 29 Mar, 2018 08:17 AM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.

    You may be correct regarding the scenario of one computer plus two phones as I can’t test that. I can only explain my experience with two computers and one phone.

    Your data is held in two places, in your data set on your computer and in the “.moneydancesync” folder in Dropbox in another form. It possible to have lost your data set on your computer and follow a recovery procedure to recover the data from the “.moneydancesync” folder. So, it’s not accurate to say the real data lives only in the datafile on the PC.

    For some people conflicts between these two sets of data can lead to syncing issues. For them syncing reset can fix that issue as by deleting the .moeydancesync folder and recreating it afresh based on data in the data set removes conflicts.

    I have followed the reset procedure, as have many others, based on posts from support, without creating any issues. In the earlier builds of 2017 to fix real syncing issues and later to document and check the reset procedure.

    It may not help in your case as I have never experienced the creating of such a large number of file in .moneydancesync folder. I hope you can find a solution if you fell tying a sync reset is not for you.

  16. 16 Posted by Charles Vaughn on 29 Mar, 2018 01:12 PM

    Charles Vaughn's Avatar

    Re: dropbox huge number of files? [Syncing Moneydance with iPhone, iPod
    Touch, iPad, and Android Devices #11320]

  17. 17 Posted by jim on 29 Mar, 2018 04:17 PM

    jim's Avatar

    "Your data is held in two places, in your data set on your computer and in the “.moneydancesync” folder in Dropbox in another form. It possible to have lost your data set on your computer and follow a recovery procedure to recover the data from the “.moneydancesync” folder. So, it’s not accurate to say the real data lives only in the datafile on the PC."

    In January of 2016, my laptop died, taking the moneydance datafile and the backup with it.

    According to infinitekind support at that time, it IS NOT possible to rebuild the PC datafile from the dropbox info.
    That's why my history only goes back to 1-1-2016.

    Hopefully infinitekind support will respond again at some point?

  18. 18 Posted by derekkent23 on 29 Mar, 2018 05:44 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.

    You are absolutely correct. It was not possible to recreate a lost data set from the data held in “.moneydancesync” folder when using 2015.

    Things changed due to the introduction of Moneydances internal syncing engine in 2017.

    I have just retested the recovery procedure based on one computer and one phone.

    I deleted a data set that was only syncing to a phone and then followed the recovery procedure to reconstruct the data set.

    It worked! All my data recovered.

  19. 19 Posted by jim on 03 Apr, 2018 08:43 PM

    jim's Avatar

    It's been another week since my last post, without any response from infinitekind support...

    Does anyone know of any similar programs, sold by a company with an address and a USA support staff with a phone number?

  20. 20 Posted by dwg on 03 Apr, 2018 09:14 PM

    dwg's Avatar

    I'm a fellow customer.

    I do not know that support could have added anything to what Derek has already said. Prior to Moneydance 2017 it is not possible to recover data from the mobile phone sync information because it only contains a small subset of the information.

    While with MD 2017 the mobile itself still only contains a subset, what is in dropbox contains the complete information as this version bought in the capability to sync between multiple desktops therefore has to contain the complete transaction data.

    It is my understanding that later versions of moneydance are more aggressively rolling transactions into the core trunk file but I do not believe that they are doing any significant pruning, the issue being that the developers need to devise a way of handling devices that may infrequently sync and to maintain the ability to work with these devices either need to keep a record of when all devices have synced and only prune records before this date or somehow mark the devices as needing to do a complete sync of all data as if it has just been bought into the sync arrangement.

  21. 21 Posted by jim on 04 Apr, 2018 12:43 PM

    jim's Avatar

    dropbox filecount now 66,141...

    Fellow users, I appreciate your help and suggestions, but I would like to hear from Infinitekind.
    This is not "open license" software, it is a commercial product which I (we) paid for and part of that was the expectation of professional support.

    So far, all I've gotten is "that sure is a lot of files" from infinitekind, and a very long complex procedure from another user.
    I don't even have an answer to the question "is the huge number of files in dropbox a problem in and of itself?"

  22. Support Staff 22 Posted by Sean Reilly on 04 Apr, 2018 01:06 PM

    Sean Reilly's Avatar

    Hi Jim,

    Sorry for not chiming in further earlier. To answer your question, no the huge number of files in dropbox is not a problem in and of itself. However, we do have plans to change Moneydance to trim the older files from the list after it's sure that any devices that sync with the same file have a complete data set.

    Thanks,
    Sean

  23. 23 Posted by jimm on 04 Apr, 2018 02:39 PM

    jimm's Avatar

    Well thank you for that.

    I will simply choose to ignore it then, at least until my free dropbox tells me (again) that it is full.

    That was what started this...

    But I reduced the number of full backups I was keeping to get the message to go away.

    Jim

    Original message
    From: "Sean Reilly" <[email blocked]>
    To: [email blocked];
    Dated: 4/4/2018 9:06:43 AM

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