Third-party Quote and Exchange Rate Program from hleofxquotes.

derekkent23's Avatar

derekkent23

01 Jan, 2018 11:16 AM

I am not support staff, just a user.

I am a UK investor and have found that Alpha Vantage provide very poor support for UK/Irish/Luxenberg etc, domiciled funds.
I am currently testing a stand-alone program that was originally developed to help out users of MS Money when Microsoft stopped supporting that product. The developer is in the beta stages of adapting it to work with Moneydance. When I say beta, this build as far as I can see is very stable and the quotes very consistent. No strange prices or for UK funds switching back and forward between Pence and Pounds. It has a lot of useful features. These include, obtaining prices from many stocks and fund quoted on different exchanges. The ability to convert quotes from one currency to another. Convert prices in Pence to Pounds, if required, for UK stocks and funds. Provide a means for importing all this data into Moneydance. Importing exchange rates.

Anyway, download the attached PDF, use the links to download the programs and follow the instructions on how to use.

Please keep this thread to this subject on how to use the program, hleofxquotes in association Mike Brays Security Price Loader and how to import the data into Moneydance.

Please provide feedback on how well UK, Mainland Europe, USA and Canadian stocks and funds are covered.

Hope this helps.

ALWAYS CHECK TO SEE IF THERE IS A NEW PDF IN A LATER POST!

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  1. 31 Posted by derekkent23 on 19 Feb, 2018 09:55 AM

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    I am not support staff, just a user.

    UPDATE PDF
    The PDF attached now includes link to Mike Brays latest build 2020 of the Security Price Loader extension. Among other self-evident feature additions, the extension now allows you to selected whether to update the Current Price when adding/updating an existing Dated Price in the Security Price History window.

    Current “Build_20180212_193.
    Introduced the following:

    1. Securities that are returned under the “Not Found Price” tab can now be edited. You can edit the Symbol, Name, Price, Last Traded Date and Last Trade Time for each security listed. Find the data from another source, enter it and the data will be exported along with the found data in the exported file. No need to use another method to input these quotes into Moneydance.

    2. Mike Brays Security Price Loader is now the preferred method to import data. If QIF import method is used it is recommended that you don’t update more than once a week. Frequent updates can result in the Current and Last Dated Price being different.

    3. Error trapping added to prevent problems with Moneydances Base Currency if multiple of the same exchange rate attribute are added by mistake. e.g. USDGBP as well as GBPUSD.

    4. If the currency of the Security is different from the Base Currency, then Moneydance Build 1665 or later must be used with the QIF import method.

    5. If the currency of the Security is different from the Base Currency when the Security Price Loader is used, then the Build of the extension must be 2020 or later.

    Download the attached updated PDF, use the links to download the programs and follow the instructions on how to use.

    Please keep this thread to this subject on how to use the program, hleofxquotes in association Mike Brays Security Price Loader and how to import the data into Moneydance.

    Please try this program and comment on any problems you find.

    Please provide feedback on how well UK, Mainland Europe, USA and Canadian stocks and funds are covered.

    Hope this helps.

    Note: the link in the PDF takes you to the programmer, hleofxquotes, development site. This site lists the current released build for download, along with a number of other folders. The folder “old” contains old released builds. The folder “test” contains builds under development that are not ready for release and may contain bugs.

    ALWAYS CHECK TO SEE IF THERE IS A NEW PDF IN A LATER POST!

  2. 32 Posted by dwg on 04 Mar, 2018 07:42 AM

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    Hi Derek,

    You asked me to test the tool with Australian shares. I have now tested it on a 32-bit Windows system that also has Moneydance 2017 build 1666 installed.

    Instead of installing a separate version of Java I have used the bundled version that ships with Moneydance. This works without problem with the utility thus saving a second Java install.

    I tried the utility with just over 20 shares listed on the ASX. All shares used to work for current prices with the Q & ER extension when it could use Yahoo. In my testing both the Yahoo and FT options work and both deliver the correct pricing, so from the perspective of downloading current stock prices it works correctly.

    The one issue I found is that when using the utility it is necessary for me to append the .AX qualifier to the ticker. I do not have my shares set up this way in Moneydance. In Moneydance I just have the raw ticker and would use the settings (Exchange name & Quote source) in the Q & ER extension to ensure the correct pricing is retrieved, hence to use this tool I would have to either:

    1. Remove all .AX qualifiers from the tickers in the download

    OR

    1. Modify the security to include the .AX qualifier as part of the ticker symbol.

    I also tried the gateway version of the utility along with the modified Q&ER Extension. This quite impressed me, it integrated well with Moneydance turning quote downloads largely back into an automated process. The utility could be started as part of the moneydance startup to bring it all together if a user desires. The only suggestion here would be to change the updater so that it can coexist with the standard Q & ER updater and also be modified to give a choice of Yahoo or FT. This version would also work with Moneydance 2015, thus restoring functionality to that version.

    It may also be possible for someone who knows what they are doing to change the older version of the Q & ER Updater in the same way to restore the functionality to 2014 and earlier versions of Moneydance.

    Des

  3. 33 Posted by derekkent23 on 04 Mar, 2018 11:05 AM

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    Hi Des,

    I appreciate your time in looking at the stand-alone program.

    On your first point, the fact that the symbols you use within Moneydance and the symbols needed by the stand-alone program are different.

    A symbol conversion attribute can be used, added after the Quote Source Symbol.
    Attribute = “,Moneydance_symbol/Quote_Source_Symbol”

    Let say the symbol required by the programs quote source is “FOR.AX” and the symbol you have in Moneydance is “FOR” then in the programs Symbol window enter “FOR.AX,FOR/FOR.AX”.
    “FOR.AX” will be used to obtain the price in “Quote Source Price” tab but will appear as “FOR” in the “Converted Price” tab and in the exported QIF or CSV files used to import into Moneydance. Thus, a one-time setup.

    You make a good point regarding using the Q & ER as an import interface. As you say hleOfxQuotes did modify the then version of the Q & ER to run his program in the background and use the Q & ER as an interface. At the time Sean was working hard to use Alpha Vantage and the code for the Q & ER was in a state of flux. This and the fact that when using the stand-alone program, you get the advantage of seeing the price data before its imported into Moneydance tripped the balance away from using the Q & ER. The Q & ER, using Alpha Vantage as a UK investor really created havoc with my security price history. Lots of invalid prices. It took me any days to sort thing out. You don’t get to see the data before it entered and it was over a week before I spotted the invalid data. Had to go back to an old backup and re-enter my missing transactions. Also, the ability to use currency conversion can help some users. I have a number of securities quoted in USD, but in Moneydance the security is quoted in Pounds. The stand-alone program does the conversion for me. Sean’s only just fixed the bug that made importing data into securities that were not in the base currency a disaster. The stand-alone program allows you to edit any securities that were not found to add prices etc, so they will be in the QIF and CSV file. This means not having to use another import method for these. The next step hleOfxQuotes is working on is to integrate the results from the two current sources into a single output. Also, hleOfxQuotes uses the same program to support user who still use MS Money. It possible he may look at the Q & ER method again when it becomes stable, but not sure. He has plans to add a number of new features to the stand-alone program which will absorb his time for now.

    When I tested v1015, the Q & ER only found 3 valid quotes from my 43 securities and it was very slow. Perhaps due to so many no data found events. The stand-alone program finds 40 out of 43. hleOfxQuotes is considering adding other sources for data which may bring my hit rate to 100%.

    One of the things hleOfxQuotes has talk about is to investigate the feasibility of is instead of just downloading last traded date prices, adding the ability to download a price history for each security. That’s not important to me, I just run the program at intervals. I don’t need prices for every trading day, too much data. What do you think.

    Any other feature that you think would be helpful?

    Also, can you provide detailed instructions, step by step for non-computer literates, of how to use Java in Moneydance instead of installing a separate java install. It could be worth including in the PDF. Do you know if there is a similar install that can be performed on Mac and Linux computers?

    Anyway, thanks for spending your time on this.

    Derek

  4. 34 Posted by derekkent23 on 04 Mar, 2018 12:09 PM

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    Hi Des

    Forgot to add, that Kevin N still uses MD 2011r2+ (808) and the hleOfxQuotes stand-alone program to update his securities by importing the QIF file exported from the program into Moneydance.

    So, it looks like the program can be used as it stands with 2011 up to 2017.

    Derek

  5. 35 Posted by dwg on 04 Mar, 2018 09:08 PM

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    Hi Derek,

    I still use MD2012 but my broker provides the ability to have watch lists and I download this as a CSV and use the older version of Mike Bray's utility to import the CSV file. Importing prices via a QIF with my setup would not be pretty - lots of individual investment account.

    I'll take a look at using the symbol attribute, it sounds interesting.

    I saw the gateway mode of the utility as a way to restore the automated nature of downloads, and as such valuable to the many that want things largely just working, certainly in stand alone mode it would be valuable to those with further or specialised needs.

    It sounds like you may have mostly funds rather than shares, I was rather surprised that Yahoo had funds (apart from ETF's naturally) I always just expected it to have traded securities and exchange rates i.e. those items traded on a market.

    For many maintaining a history is important, I stopped using the history feature in Q&ER when I first migrated as it ruined some prices i.e. wiped them out completely, and just used the current price, but I do start moneydance each weekday evening to download the current price, so I do maintain history of shares, but only do fund prices on a monthly basis. I suspect the funds I have not to be listed - lots of wholesale type funds and the data I can get regarding the umbrella fund they are under is so badly structured I would have to write a program just to try and get it into a usable state, so I just maintain it as if the umbrella fund was an actual fund.

    What I did with Java was enough to get it working with LibreOffice I will take a closer look to see what can be done to make it generic - the Java that ships with moneydance is a full RTE as far as I can tell it is just installed into a private location.

    Des

  6. 36 Posted by derekkent23 on 04 Mar, 2018 09:47 PM

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    Hi Des

    Kevin N still uses MD 2011r2+ (808) and the hleOfxQuotes stand-alone program to update his securities by importing the QIF file exported from the program.

    With 2017 and presumably all the way back to 2011, when you import the QIF file you can import it into any investment account. Your securities don’t have to be under that account, they still get updated. So, only one import, no matter how many investment accounts you have. Maybe if you have time one day use a backup to test a QIF import. As you use Mikes Security Price Loader wouldn’t the CSV file exported from the program work as well?

    I don’t actually use the Yahoo quote source, all my securities are fund, not shares, domiciled in the UK, Ireland and Luxenberg. FT gets me 40 out of my 43 funds. The remaining 3 I use the edit feature in the Not Found Price tab to add the data so they are in the QIF and CSV files.

    Derek

  7. 37 Posted by dwg on 04 Mar, 2018 10:36 PM

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    Hi Derek,

    Any properly formatted CSV file will work with Mike's loader, alas unfortunately for Kevin the loader does not work on pre 2012 versions of Moneydance for some reason, the API should be the same as far as I know, but there is probably something in the data structure. My understanding with the QIF method that you had to have an investment account that included all securities even if there were no transactions in it.

    Having all funds and Non-US funds at that explains a lot of the problems you would have getting data from Yahoo. Google was notable for being pretty much US centric in all things and Yahoo seemed to be only Worldwide on shares.

    I think Sean with AlphaVantage will have to concentrate on Exchange rates and Shares assuming something can be done around what AV is doing with pounds vs pence. Funds I think will always remain a problem.

  8. 38 Posted by derekkent23 on 05 Mar, 2018 08:50 AM

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    Hi Des

    I don’t know if things have changed between 2011 and 2017. I can confirm what happens using 2017. I import the QIF file containing all my securities into only one investment account. This account only contains some of my securities. The rest of my securities are in another account. But the one import updates all my securities.
    In fact, it does not seem to matter which account you import into. In test I imported into my credit card account, but still all securities were updated. With no harmful effect on other accounts.

    It great to have the stand-alone program that meets my need in obtaining fund prices and helps others with funds outside of North America that Alpha Vantage does not support.

    Derek

  9. 39 Posted by dwg on 05 Mar, 2018 10:31 AM

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    Hi Derek,

    I have only used QIF for importing transactions, using integrated facilities or CSV files for importing prices. I was used to this when previously using Reckon (Quicken) so doing the same with Moneydance was a natural progression and easier in Moneydance for CSV files and manual entry than Reckon in any case.

    Of course with Quicken they concentrate on North America and Reckon on Australia and New Zealand so with Moneydance potentially used in any one of the 190+ countries in the world it is a challenge.

    It is good you have this utility as an additional solution and of course the more data sources there are the better. I do like that it can be used standalone but I also like the integration potential, you can have a real testing capability then you could set it up to work as part of your Moneydance usage without the need for manual intervention.

    I see it as being especially useful for Funds in general and quotes outside of the US or perhaps outside of the major stock exchanges and of course those using older versions of Moneydance.

  10. 40 Posted by -Kevin N. on 05 Mar, 2018 02:53 PM

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    Hi All,

    MD 2011r2+ (808)
    Win 7 Home 64-bit

    I can confirm Derek's findings that you can import the QIF file into any investment account and that there is no need for a 'dummy' account.

    I didn't go as far as to attempt to import the QIF into a credit card account. I'll take his word that it works. :)

    -Kevin N.

  11. 41 Posted by dwg on 05 Mar, 2018 08:30 PM

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    Hi Derek,

    I see how the symbol conversion works.

    I took a lazy way of setting it up. I pulled the symbols out of Moneydance and in the resultant spreadsheet I used the concatenation capability to derive a column with the required conversions in it.

    I had a look at the QIF file output from the utility I was surprised to see the odd date format that occasionally crops up.

    Des

  12. 42 Posted by derekkent23 on 05 Mar, 2018 11:01 PM

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    Hi Des

    Good approach to use a spread sheet to add the conversion attribute.
    Did you mean date format "1/31'2018" if not can you post what you are seeing.
    hleofxquotes formatted the QIF file and when I first did a test import into Moneydance it worked, so I did not question it. Maybe hleofxquotes will jump in and enlighten us.

    Derek

  13. 43 Posted by hleofxquotes on 05 Mar, 2018 11:39 PM

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    Re: QIF date format 1/31'2018

    There is a bit historical context on this:

    • Way back when, the QIF date format is 2-digit MM/DD/YY. Obviously, there is a problem when we got to 2000

    • Quicken solution is use MM/DD'YY to indicate POST 2000 date: 01/01'10 is (Jan 01, 2010).

    • There are buggy software out there that will choke on the 2-digit post 2000 format BUT will accept MM/DD'YYYY. Good software out there also seems to accept MM/DD'YYYY.

    • So the format I use 1/31'2018 is actually out of spec (using 'YYYY instead of just 'YY) BUT that seems to work best in "real world".

    Actually, as far as I know there is no real QIF spec. Just a bunch of examples and annotated notes from various folks out there on the net.

  14. 44 Posted by dwg on 06 Mar, 2018 05:12 AM

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    Thanks for the explanation and the utility.

    Over the years I've managed to share some partial specs that appear to have been created by Intuit - dated 1996 & 1999 but they do not go into dates in any detail they just use the standard date with slash separators.

    When I moved from Reckon (Australianised version of Quicken based on Quicken source code but adapted for local requirements) they had already removed (apparently) the option to produce QIF files from the software so I ended up with 4 digit years because of the migration I had to do using reports and Moneydance was quite happy with this in the QIF files I created.

    Derek,

    I have not forgotten your request regarding using the Moneydance bundled Java. I wanted to install the Java 8 kit on a crash and burn machine as a base line, and to see what changes/additions it makes but the machine is running Windows XP and Java is currently refusing to install on it - despite Oracle saying it should install but is a use at your own risk proposition.

    Des

  15. 45 Posted by dwg on 08 Mar, 2018 12:35 AM

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    Derek,

    In general I have been able to use the Moneydance bundled Java from MD version 2012 forward with other programs requiring the Java Runtime Environment.

    That being said the hleofxquotes utility requires Java version 8 thus you can only use the bundled Java release from MD2015 and MD2017 for the utility. Moneydance 2012 and 2014 use Java 7 for example and the utility will not run with this release.

    In the end I found the changes required to enable basic usage to be very minor. All example are under Windows.

    The first this is to add to your PATH environment variable. In all versions of Windows that I can recall this is in the Control Panel under System, the version of Windows dictates exactly how you get to it for example in Windows 10, it is Advanced System Settings --> Advanced --> Environment variables

    The path you need to add is dependent on the bitness of the Window O/S you are using and the bitness of the version of Moneydance you have installed, So for example a 32 bit version of Moneydance on a 64 Bit O/s is

     c:\Program Files (x86)\Moneydance\jre\bin
    

    A 32 Bit Moneydance version on a 32 bit O/S is:

     c:\Program Files\Moneydance\jre\bin
    

    Etc

    You can use explorer to valid the correct location.

    You edit the Path variable and at the end add a semicolon (;) and the relevant path.

    That will enable the very basic of functionality so issuing a command like:

     java -jar hleOfxQuotes-Build_20171110_131-app.jar
    

    Will start the utility.

    To enable double clicking from Windows you would need to add a file association.

    So you create one for .JAR Files and again using the path you have worked out for the above you would need to add something like:

    "C:\Program Files\Moneydance\jre\bin\javaw.exe" -jar "%1" %*

    I did this on Windows XP which I suspect the instructions for would be of benefit to few

    You could also take a short cut and just create simple batch file with the earlier java command in it and create a short cut icon for it - this is easier.

    My motivation to try to set this up was that I had Moneydance installed, I had LibreOffice installed and I wanted to use the database in LO but it requires Java so instead of having another Java installed just use the Moneydance bundled release and the addition of the path was enough to facilitate this.

    It has been quite some time since I had a Linux machine setup and I do not recall what is required, Linux does have a PATH variable and file associations that I do recall, setting up a machine under Linux is something I probably should do again. As for a Mac I have sat in front of one and that is as far as it went :)

  16. 46 Posted by derekkent23 on 08 Mar, 2018 10:42 AM

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    Hi dwg

    Thanks for taking the time to explain how to use Moneydances in built Java. I will over the weekend take a detailed look.

    Thanks

  17. 47 Posted by PaulF on 09 Mar, 2018 03:49 PM

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    I have been using Hleofxquotes with Mike's loader program and it works really well. The only complication is that you have to specify the dates for the upload - they are not taken from the price download. This is an issue as some unit trust prices are calculated in arrears. So the qif upload has been a real step forward (once I sorted out the date formats - for which thank you for the discussion above). I was then getting greedy (to avoid saving and then opening the qif file) and tried using the Import to Money button. It opened in Moneydance (I had associated mny files to Moneydance) and looked like it would update the securities (as it asked which price related to which security). But it did not show up in the history file. Should this work or am I being too ambitious? Any help gratefully received.

  18. 48 Posted by derekkent23 on 09 Mar, 2018 05:20 PM

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    I am not support staff, just a user.

    Hi PaulF

    Mike did put a suggestion forward on his site regarding adding a date field for each security in the CSV file that could be used on import, but it does not look like he has taken it any further. If he was to implement this feature, use date if present in CSV file, otherwise use date set in extension window, then I don’t think hleofxquotes would have a problem adding dates to his CSV export file.

    If Mike reads this perhaps he could comment?

    The hleofxquotes program supports both Moneydance and MS Money as the PDF indicates. The “Import to MS Money” button is for the import of a file into MS Money. As you found it does not work with Moneydance.

    I am glad you are finding the Program useful and if you have any suggestion for other feature post and let’s see if the developer can help.

  19. 49 Posted by hleofxquotes on 09 Mar, 2018 05:36 PM

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    Re: " Import to Money" button

    That will only work on "Window", it just simulate "double click on *.ofx file".

    Have you try the following: save to OFX file, then use MD mechanism (I assume there will be a button/menu somwhere) to import the OFX. Does that update the price?

    If above is "no", then clicking on "Import to Money" won't work.
    If above is "yes", the clicking on "Import to Money" should work.

  20. 50 Posted by hleofxquotes on 09 Mar, 2018 05:57 PM

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    Re: I was then getting greedy (to avoid saving and then opening the qif file)

    Ah .. I re-read the message again. I notice above. To clarify, "Import to Money", will simulate

    • Generate an OFX file

    • Double click on the OFX file

    Currently, are you able to double-click on an QIF file and has it imported and updated the price correctly in MD?

    If "yes", I can add some convenience way to so same thing for QIF file. Perhaps, something like

    • If you hold down the Shift key why menu select "QIF" file, tool will generate QIF file and then simulate double-click.
  21. 51 Posted by PaulF on 09 Mar, 2018 06:20 PM

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    Thanks to both Derek and Hleofxquotes for their rapid replies. The date already exists in the Hleofxquotes extract so a solution would be for Mike's loader program to pick up that date.

    The qif file from the Hleofxquotes program works well using saving and then importing. On the direct input into MD, Hleofxquote's suggestion of shift key solution to the QIF option would be great. An alternative could be a right click option to open as qif (this is an option for Money). But whatever is easiest as I really appreciate any solution which automates the upload.

  22. 52 Posted by hleofxquotes on 09 Mar, 2018 11:19 PM

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    Will add "Open as *.qif".

  23. 53 Posted by derekkent23 on 10 Mar, 2018 10:22 AM

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    I have posted on Mikes site asking him to consider using dates if they are available in a CSV file, let’s see if he responds. The CSV file exported from the hleofxquotes Program does not currently contains dates. However as they are available, adding them to the CSV file should not be an issue for hleofxquotes.

  24. 54 Posted by derekkent23 on 10 Mar, 2018 01:38 PM

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    Mike posted a reply to the CSV date suggestion as follows.
    “When I looked into it the whole extension is built around the concept of one entry per ticker. With the date there could be several entries. It is quite a bit of work to redo this and it is not a feature I would personally use. So maybe in the future.”

  25. 55 Posted by Uffe on 11 Mar, 2018 12:46 PM

    Uffe's Avatar

    Hi

    I have just tried out version 193 of hleOfxQuotes and have run into two issues I hope somebody can help me out with.

    Running Windows 10 64-bit v1709 and Jave 8 update 161.

    When I try to save the quotes as a csv files it can I select the folder where to save the csv files but it does not save any file. Anybody have a clue as to what is wrong?

    I have some Danish mutual funds as I am located in Denmark. I have been able to find the funds on FT, but when i update the prices they are all shown with a factor 100 (see pictures) so it shows a price of e.g. DKK 17440,0000 but the correct price is DKK 174,40 is there i way to get the program to divide the price with 100? I guess it is related to the pence/pounds issue. Is there a similar way to solve the issue as the GBX/GBP solution?

  26. 56 Posted by derekkent23 on 11 Mar, 2018 03:06 PM

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    I am not support staff, just a user.

    Hi Uffe

    First in Moneydance have you set up the symbols to have :DKK on the end.
    If yes then
    DK0010169549:DKK/DKK/DKK
    DK0010257914:DKK/DKK/DKK
    DK0010312529:DKK/DKK/DKK
    Is correct
    If no use
    DK0010169549/DKK/DKK
    DK0010257914/DKK/DKK
    DK0010312529/DKK/DKK

    The 100 factor issue. I can’t reproduce that, see screen shot. Can you run the program again and confirm the issue is still there?

    Saving as a CSV file. When saving can you select another location, say your desk top and see what happens then.

    Sorry not to have immediate answers but we will get there.

  27. 57 Posted by hleofxquotes on 11 Mar, 2018 03:43 PM

    hleofxquotes's Avatar

    Re: DKK issue.
    I can duplicate this. Bug is related to that fact that price on ft.com is ALWAYS in English format 174.00 but I parse it using current locale. Will fix.

  28. 58 Posted by derekkent23 on 11 Mar, 2018 04:36 PM

    derekkent23's Avatar

    I am not support staff, just a user.

    Hi Uffe

    Looks like hleofxquotes next build will fix your 100 factor issue. Let us know about the Save CSV problem.

  29. 59 Posted by Uffe on 11 Mar, 2018 05:19 PM

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    Hi Derek,

    I found the explanation why I could not save the the CSV file. I had placed the hleofxquotes program in the Moneydance folder under my Program Files and at least with a non-admin Windows user this stops me from saving any CSV files. After moving the program to e.g. the Document folder I could save the CSV file.

  30. 60 Posted by hleofxquotes on 11 Mar, 2018 05:39 PM

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    @Uffe, You can give the following build a try to see if that will fix your price issue

    https://github.com/hleofxquotes/hleofxquotes/tree/master/dist/test/...

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