Budgeting transfers

Steven H's Avatar

Steven H

05 Jan, 2018 07:52 PM

Hello,

I need to be able to budget my transfers between accounts as this is part of my cash flow. I see that it hasn't been available, although asked for for years. Can you let me know when this is road-mapped to be available?

Thanks
Steven

  1. 1 Posted by Bob W on 09 Jan, 2018 02:17 AM

    Bob W's Avatar

    I found a way to create a cash buget. It takes an extra entry but it seems to work for me. Essentially I set up a budget account and a contra account for each payment I make to a loan or other liability.

    1. Add a Category called Credit Payments
    2. Under that Category add a Category called Loan Account Budget and one called Loan Account Contra (add the name of your creditor for Loan Account).
    3. After you make your normal cash payment to the account, add an offsetting entry to the two accounts:
             a. Right click on the Loan Account Budget category and select Open in New
                      Window
    b. Add a transaction to this Budget category with:
                       i) The Loan Contra Account as the Category, and
                       II) The payment amount in the Increase field.

    4. The transaction will net itself to zero between the Budget and the Contra accounts so it will not affect your Income and Expense Reports or Net Worth.
    5. In your cash budget, add a budget amount to the Budget category, and
    6. Add a budget to the Categories that are paid from your checking or cash accounts. For example, we pay some expenses as automatic charges to a credit card; I would not select these Categories in the cash budget but I would in the full expense budget.
    7. When you create your budget for your full expenses (as opposed to a cash budget), do not select this Loan Account Budget account in that budget.

  2. 2 Posted by Tom on 01 Feb, 2018 02:07 AM

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    I agree - please make budgeting transfers a priority. I just realized that this functionality is missing and am contemplating cutting my losses and taking advantage of the 90 day money back guarantee. It's a pretty big deal for me not to have this functionality.

  3. 3 Posted by dwg on 01 Feb, 2018 07:02 AM

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    I believe the alternative "Mixed-Interval" budget format allows for you to budget transfers between accounts, so you might like to check that out.

  4. 4 Posted by tkpcous on 02 Mar, 2018 09:07 PM

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    I also agree. Transfers from retirement accounts to checking cannot be budgeted as Income, therefore the budget bars always show the budget in the red since income is shown at $0. The "Mixed-Interval" budget format does not allow for this either. Please consider adding this functionality, it's a real disatisfyer not being able to have a complete expense budget.

  5. 5 Posted by Kevin Stembridg... on 05 Mar, 2018 12:16 AM

    Kevin Stembridge's Avatar

    Hi all,

    I'm the developer of the Money Foresight extension to Moneydance. I'm interested in learning more about budgeting transfers. It might be a feature that I can add to the extension.

    In particular, I'm interested in understanding what benefit the feature will provide. What will it enable you to do? What are the consequences of not having it? That sort of thing.

    If you're happy to answer these sorts of questions please contact me at support at moneyforesight dot com. Or if you prefer to continue with a shared conversation then I'm happy to continue in this thread.

    Regards,
    Kevin

  6. 6 Posted by tkpcous on 05 Mar, 2018 12:35 AM

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    Hello Kevin,

    I would be more than happy to provide you with more information! It will
    take me a day or so to put together some views that will illustrate the
    issue and outline the benefits and shortfall.  I'll start on this
    tomorrow and get back to you very soon.

    Thank you for looking into this!!!

    Kind regards,

    Teresa Petersen

  7. 7 Posted by mhoggie on 08 Mar, 2018 06:18 PM

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    I have been using the mixed-interval budget feature successfully since last summer to track transfers to other accounts. But I just noticed today that the mixed-interval transfer budgeting is no longer working. Budgeted transfers are no longer being picked up by the budget status bar and reports. I watch this budget regularly so it must have started failing recently. I'm currently running build 1668 on windows 7 64.

  8. 8 Posted by dwg on 08 Mar, 2018 09:17 PM

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    I'm a fellow user.

    The Moneydance change log shows some recent changes being made in budgeting, but not to do with this, but there could have been something done to inadvertently affect this so I expect that support will need to refer this to the developers.

  9. 9 Posted by mhoggie on 17 Mar, 2018 07:00 PM

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    I think it may be sometime before MoneyDance addresses the account transfer budget issue. Those issues have been with us a long time. I was using the mixed interval budget as a work around which did pickup the transfers to accounts, but it no longer works as of a couple of builds ago. But here is a way to budget those account transfers like Bob was describing in the first comment. You just need to create additional categories to capture the payment and offset the work around. Using the "split" function in your scheduled payment, add an additional split using the special category that will be used to capture the payment in the budget. Then another split to offset the additional payment. In my example, I'm making a loan payment to account "AT&T Savings Plan". Then I added a "split" to make that payment again to the special category I created "AT&T Savings Plan Payments" that I added to my budget. Then I added a special category call "NULL" to offset the extra amount paid. That prevents your original source account from seeing the double payment. It works perfect. You just need to schedule the spits in your reminders and adjust the amount of the splits and offset if the amount of the transfer changes. Yeah, a little extra thing to check, but not too much trouble for just the few account transfers you may have and still allow your budget to capture the activity. This also works great for budgeting mortgage or loan payments where the principle and interest changes every month, but the payment remains the same. You just create a special category to capture the full payment and add the offset. Also you can filter out the special categories as needed in other reports.

  10. 10 Posted by gdoycak on 19 Mar, 2018 02:14 AM

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    This is just simply unbelievable!! A software company is asking for some $50 for a product that is meant to help you budget....and after a whole day (no kidding!) of fiddling around to put in all my balances on all accounts, I find out this piece of garba**e does not provide for budgeting for transfers to periodic loan payments...like....errrr...mortgage!!!?? I ask the vendor - did the inventors of car set out to create one with three wheels???
    This is such a monstrous waste of time I am beside myself!! You haven't thought of this very primitive and essential feature and yet you have the courage to go out there and ask for people to pay for this product????? Never!!!

  11. Support Staff 11 Posted by Ian O on 19 Mar, 2018 10:21 AM

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    Hi All,

    The budgeting system in Moneydance currently only supports budgeting for income and expenses. Transfers to other accounts are not supported in the budgeting system by design.
    As the transfer is from one account to another, it does not effect your net worth and budget in the same way an income or expense category will.

    There is an existing suggestion ticket in our system regarding this feature, so I have attached the ticket to this discussion and will pass your feedback to the development team. Attaching the ticket essentially counts as a 'vote' towards this features implementation.

    Ian O
    Infinite Kind Support

  12. 12 Posted by dwg on 19 Mar, 2018 10:33 AM

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    Hi Ian,

    I believe the older mixed Interval budget format did support transfers but users are reporting that this has stopped working recently.

  13. 13 Posted by mhoggie on 19 Mar, 2018 02:48 PM

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    I don’t think I’ve ever seen a budget where you don’t include all major expenses expected, whether it be to a utility, dining, gym, car loan, or mortgage. Net worth is a separate issue.

    Mike

    Sent from my iPhone

  14. 14 Posted by Steven H on 19 Mar, 2018 03:01 PM

    Steven H's Avatar

    Saying it was a design decision is laughable. Nobody would purposely exclude the ability to budget transfer b/c they don't affect net worth. A budget is all about cash flow. the "goes inta" needs to be more than the "goes outta". If you can't track all of the "goes outta" then you are not really tracking your cash flows.

    In my case the workaround is that I've had to use Excel to calculate all the ingress and egress then use moneydance to monitor just spending levels against those calculated values.

  15. 15 Posted by mhoggie on 20 Mar, 2018 02:05 PM

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    Just a curiosity, but does anyone in the MoneyDance support team actually use the Budget feature personally? That may explain some of the misunderstanding surrounding the Budget feature.

  16. 16 Posted by dwg on 20 Mar, 2018 08:50 PM

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    I'm a fellow customer.

    Alas the new format budget in moneydance is not a cash flow budget which is what people appear to be looking for. There are many different types of budget and it seems that this format is closer to what would be a line item budget, in Moneydance terms a category line budget.

    In budgeting terms is does not allow for Debt repayment, savings, retirement plans and the like which in Moneydance are represented usually by transfers between accounts. So it is really looking at the remaining items after the funds for these "expenditures" have been deducted or removed from the funds coming in. Hence it is looking at what we could term to be variable expenses rather than fixed expenses which items like debt repayment usually are.

    Perhaps the budget type that this type of budgeting facilitates could be term the variable expenses budget. Items that we do have some capacity to control in the short term. A useful budget system for some not so useful for others.

  17. 17 Posted by mhoggie on 20 Mar, 2018 09:49 PM

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    Dwg,

    If you go look at any budget spreadsheet or worksheet,  the first thing
    on the budget is mortgage or rental expense.    MoneyDance budget will
    pick up a rental payment,  but not a mortgage payment.   That makes no
    logical sense.  Also MoneyDance did support budget payments to a
    mortgage on the mixed-interval method until a few builds ago,  so
    MoneyDance supported budgeting a mortgage payment until a few weeks ago?
       That's why I asked the question about anyone on the MoneyDance team
    using the budget feature.   They can't be or they would have noticed the
    change. Also if you don't budget a mortgage payment,  how do you offset
    the income that the budget does pick up to account for the mortgage
    payment?    I suspect MoneyDance may be in a state of denial at this
    point.   If you think a proper budgeting tool should exclude a mortgage
    payment, or any type of loan payment,  I would like to see the link to
    that budgeting tool.   I don't find anything of that sort.

    Mike

  18. 18 Posted by dwg on 20 Mar, 2018 10:12 PM

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    Mike,

    I was specifically taking about the "Newer" budgeting format rather than the older mixed interval format, you might see a few posts back I also raised the point about the old mixed interval budget working with transfers in the past.

    I was not specifically talking about budgeting tools rather about different budgeting methodologies. Line item budgeting is often used in business and generally relates to the more variable expenses and this is what this type of budgeting in Moneydance appears to be like.

    While I believe TiK should have a test suite they pass the software through before releasing it, I do not believe it is realistic to expect them to make use of every potential feature of the software.

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